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Turbulence (EPL Talk Review Podcast)

Speaker 3: Yeah, the Kagawa situation, I think, to a degree, he’s becoming better the less he plays.

Speaker 1: It’s like an inverse column.

Speaker 2: Yes, bring him on for a minute at the end then score a hat-trick. [Inaudible 00:07:43] legend, the longer the story goes on the better it becomes and the more you expound on it.  It’s not so much as setting him tests; it’s evaluating the fallout situations.  I think that again, he is someone that was always going to come under a tactical spot like when he moved to a bigger club, irrespective of whether it was Manchester United.  You could say perhaps, the fix just haven’t been the kindest to him and in facing Manchester City, he’s facing the best scorer in the Premier League. I think that …

Speaker 1: Kartik would dispute that, but okay.

Speaker 2: I’m completely sure he would, but again, that’s his own decision. I think he’s the best scorer in the Premier League. It seems as if he gets it to a degree, because when Manchester United had that late switch to 4-3-3 there seemed to be more fluency about them. There seems to be a bit more penetration towards them as well. Unfortunately, that’s come far too late in the game because he’s already four goals down. So I would imagine, it’s not as crazy as it sounds to say about a manager who is – I think Moyes is in his 50s now. There’s going to be a learning process. There’s going to be a point of him maturing into a different kind of role because even though he spent 10 years at Everton, it’s not Manchester United and that’s no disrespect to Everton.  I think it’s a wonderful club but it’s a different mentality, it’s a different approach.

Again, if Everton [inaudible 00:09:15] we don’t really say a great deal. That was something I thought was almost fundamental to Moyes was when he was at Everton against the biggest sides he did like to be a bit, not much negative, but defensively sound and not always take risks. I think in games like today, that’s possibly the worst thing you can do, because good sides will create chances against a defensive side because they’re used to playing like that every week against teams that will come and visit them in [inaudible 00:09:44].

Speaker 3: Let me follow up on Chris’s point about Fellaini because that’s very important. Fellaini was deployed next to Carrick who apparently was suffering from the flu or some sort of illness. That’s why this is one of the worst games we’ve seen Carrick play in recent years. Fellaini did absolutely nothing to pick up the runs on Manchester City’s midfield and allowed Samir Nasri free rein to act as kind of a horizontal play maker, going end to end, unmarked and having lots of space and lots time on the ball to pick out some brilliant passes and really open up the attack. I thought Fellaini was maybe the worst player on the pitch.

Speaker 2: Fellaini was directly responsible for their third goal, which killed off the game because he just didn’t follow the Aguero who was his runner. He just left him [inaudible 0:10:32]…

Speaker 1: Probably poor to put Fellaini on Aguero through, right?  Surely if Aguero is so high up and you put him there.

Speaker 2: Yes, but I don’t think he was put on him as such.  It wasn’t sort of a sign that you can give him for the game but in that situation, that was the man he was picking up.  He just let him go at the edge of the box and just let him wander into the box completely, sort of – I don’t think there was a United player within sort of 10 foot of him. You just don’t do that. That’s just simple basics of football. You follow the man you’re on at the time. I think Fellaini had a very, very poor game [inaudible 00:11:11], which is a shame because he had a very good game in the week.

Male: [Crosstalk 0:11:14]

Speaker 3: This is another thing that’s very striking is that Fellaini had very good games against Manchester City when he was with Everton. Moyes had a better record against Manchester City over the course of the last six seasons than Ferguson did. Everton had a better record against Manchester City than Manchester United did over that period. It’s actually shocking to see the tactical naivety from Moyes and then Fellaini as I said. I concur with Matt’s comments too; I think just shocking performance, worst point on the pitch for me on either side.

Speaker 1: Well, whereas in contrast, a lot of people putting Wayne Rooney as the man of the match for Manchester United. In agreement there, Morgan?

Speaker 3: Absolutely, Wayne Rooney was the only United player in my mind that showed any impetus in this game. He was the only one that actually looked up for the game. He obviously scored the only goal from a free kick so you could literally say he did it all himself. The defense was poor and he was the only one really making runs, really taking it to City. Even playing defense, Wayne Rooney did what he could but for the most part, Vincent Kompany had him in his back pocket for the most of the game. I think that to put a lot of the onus on Marouane Fellaini I think that’s kind of unfair because it really was the entire United team, to me, just seemed very poor today.  I mean Ashley Young, very poor today.

Speaker 1: What makes Ashley Young so poor?

Male: [Crosstalk 00:12:45]

Speaker 3: He was just …

Speaker 1: People say that, come on, we’re a podcast here. Why was he awful?

Speaker 3: He was awful. You saw him giving the ball away, not tracking back to go after his guy. I think it was – I can’t remember if it was the second or third goal …

Speaker 4: Navas ran by him about five times that I could count before he came off and then before Young came off.  Just ran by him and Young didn’t even bother to chase after him.

Speaker 1: Young’s biggest fault today was that he was anonymous in the [inaudible 0:13:15]. He had absolutely no impact in terms of breaking City down. The position he plays and the role he’s given at United means that if he doesn’t create chances, if he doesn’t sort of pull defenses and make them play wide so he creates a space for the people in the middle, he is a waste of a player.

Speaker 3: I think that’s the reason why you see a lot of these people clamouring for Shinji Kagawa is they believe he is a player that is a lot better than Ashley Young and he is a player that can do those things. We have seen him do those things. He can also hold up the ball well. I think really, the fact that David Moyes is continually picking Ashley Young over Shinji Kagawa, it’s criminal at this point.

Speaker 1: I agree to an extent but Kagawa is not a wide player. In my view, Kagawa, his best position is playing off the striker and sort of having that area just outside the penalty area as his world, as it were.

Speaker 3: Especially with …

Speaker 1: If you play in that position then you’re going to get the best out of him.

Speaker 3: Especially with van Persie out of the team today, this was the perfect opportunity to play Kagawa, move Rooney further up the pitch, although Rooney played pretty well in the role he was put in.  Move him further up the pitch and slide Kagawa in there and he didn’t do it. Kagawa, this is shocking guys, has played zero minutes in their three matches against Liverpool, Manchester City and Chelsea, their three big matches in the league.  Has not touched the pitch yet.

Speaker 2: There’s got to be reasoning behind that thought.  You can’t just say …

Speaker 1: He must’ve just not fancied him in training.

Speaker 2: He just doesn’t look good, guys. I don’t know what’s wrong.

Speaker 1: Everyone on Twitter’s saying he’s so good.

Male: [Crosstalk 00:14:57]

Speaker 3: He started Anderson in one of the matches in the Premier League.  You’re going to tell me Anderson is more effective that Kagawa?

Speaker 1: Maybe in this system. Although Kagawa, when he has played Manchester United this season, has actually looked quite good. To completely contrast that, we’re speaking about defense. It wasn’t until the 78th minute apparently that David de Gea made his first save, showing possibly how effective that City’s strike force is, Kartik. Aguero started very well, he was bright for the whole time he was on the pitch, wasn’t he? Even the people around him and then they were allowed so much space. I think you picked out particularly, they exploited Chris Smalling.

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  1. Jake

    September 25, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Long time listener, first time poster. Just wanted to point out Kris’ silence during the Ramsey/Piers Morgan discussion. I actually am a big fan of his analysis, but towards the end of last season, I remember a number of his articles on Soccernet advocating for Ramsey’s dropping/sale.

  2. Kartik Krishnaiyer

    September 24, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Good point Adam Heap.

  3. Adam Heap

    September 24, 2013 at 7:01 am

    I love listening to this podcast, but sometimes I wish you guys would all show a little support for the sides you follow! Kartik, you could hardly have sounded less enthusiastic about how well your club played in the derby (in spite of their history in derby matches, I know) – we all know which teams the presenters are backing, show some love for them every now and again – we know you need to be unbiased but supporters can’t help but love our clubs!

    • Jake

      September 25, 2013 at 8:27 am

      I dont think Morgan holds anything back…

      • Morgan Green

        September 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm


  4. Kartik Krishnaiyer

    September 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    I thought I mentioned Marshall but perhaps not. In fact I don’t know if I was called upon during this game, but it was late and we were trying to get the pod done. Lloris could have been sent off for that handball, as we saw a similar call last week. I don’t think Cardiff played with ten men behind the ball the entire game having now watched the full 90. Cardiff at times in the second half played a higher line and kept the ball.

    If you feel we don’t cover Spurs closely enough or are too biased towards Arsenal (an accusation you and some other Spurs fans have made towards me which conveniently ignores that Arsenal has finished ahead of Spurs for 17 consecutive seasons and with that they have earned some deference when compared to Spurs)we’d love to have you come on the podcast. Your points are well taken on this game. But understand with PSG-Monaco the biggest game of the weekend was on at 2:55 as was Milan-Napoli and having some other items to complete I didn’t get a chance to watch the game as closely as I would like before the pod. I have now watched it entirely. I also think this win indicates Spurs are a likely top 3 team as they have fared better than Everton and Man City (both outside the top 3 right now in my estimation) in South Wales. In fact this result gives Spurs more points in South Wales than City has in three trips to the area the last 3 seasons so that counts for something.

    Again, apologies. We try our best but sometimes it’s not good enough I suppose. If you want to help us with prep or even coming on in the future to discuss Spurs that’d be great!

    • Balboa77

      September 23, 2013 at 8:34 pm

      Dust on the podcast is a must listen for me. I am convinced “Dust” is a combination of people yelling at a computer screen while one person types. MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

      • Dust

        September 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm


    • Dust

      September 23, 2013 at 9:29 pm

      Thanks both of you for responding…

      I don’t think you are anti spurs, it’s a good example of a game that didn’t have the review it should’ve…

      I check back in every now and again, to see what changes (if any) there are to the coverage, esp with the changes on the site.

      Anyways…Thank you for asking, if time allows I’d be interested.

      • jtm371

        September 23, 2013 at 9:37 pm

        do it it would be EPIC!

        • dust

          September 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm

          Im happy to do it, Chris reached out for the king interview. If at some point they want it to happen i’m sure they will reach out, they have a million and one things going on.

      • COYS_USA1

        September 24, 2013 at 12:17 pm

        If Dust cant do it I would love to be on the pod

        • Balboa77

          September 24, 2013 at 8:58 pm

          No one invited you.

  5. Dust

    September 23, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    It sounded like no one watched the Spurs game, here are some talking points from the game oh…and it was Naughton was at left back, not Vertonghen.

    Cardiff’s keeper played out of his skin, he was peppered with shots and some how kept them out. It was complete domination by spurs…

    Cardiff no17 holding Lloris arm as the corner came in while another player used Dawson as human ladder for the disallowed goal they had.

    Lloris handled the ball on the edge (started on the line but handled it over the line too) of the 18m, after another dodgey back pass from Naughton.

    The football Spurs played was very very good, Cardiff had to play with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes.

    Lamela made the difference when he came on, as a very tired Cardiff couldn’t cope with his trickery and runs between them, yes Holtby played his part and did well.

    I can’t believe its co-incidence that when I choose to listen its only then that the summary of non major games are so poor.

    Cardiff’s keeper absolutely deserved a mention after putting on a performance similar to YL for WHIFC Paulinho & Dembele were sublime.

    Conceding 1 goal in 8 games (5 in BPL) for Spurs and scoring 16 best defensive record in BPL. And yes that’s quite an achievement with Dawson at the back.

    Contributors to the pod in the u.s have access to the games On Demand within an hour or so of them finishing, maybe I’m crazy, but perhaps someone from WST on the pod should watch, and then report.

    Just a thought.

    • Christopher Harris

      September 23, 2013 at 4:58 pm

      To be fair, the Tottenham match was being played at the same time as the biggest match of the weekend. Damn the Europa League!

      I’m sure a lot of people were watching the Arsenal-Stoke match instead of the Palace-Swansea one, too 😉

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