What March Madness Can Teach Euro Fans About Watching MLS
MLS fans put up with a lot in America. The soccer ignorant and the soccerphobic. Flipping through offseason NFL news, spring training news, NASCAR news, NBA trade rumors, hockey news, and golf news in their local papers before getting to any mention of soccer. And more often than not, that soccer news is European news lapped up by the dreaded American “euro snob.”
You know the type; fills up the bar every early Saturday morning to lustily cheer for his adopted Premier League side – the one he’s loyally supported to the death since that killer spring semester abroad. The ones who pair pristine Messi, Rooney and Van Persie shirts with skinny jeans and sneakers (which they’ll readily call trainers) to Pitchfork-recommended synth-pop shows. The ones who only attend domestic matches if it’s Steve Nash’s celebrity-strewn Showdown in Chinatown or involves Vice Magazine. And worst of all, the ones who refuse to watch MLS because, merde, the soccer is just not as beautiful as it is on the continent.
For American soccer fans, the enemies are the soccer ignorant, the soccerphobic and Adam Carolla, not each other. And this time of year, March Madness, is a great reminder that if you truly love soccer as a sport, then you can watch all levels of the game.
After all, there’s no doubt that the quality of college ball is far inferior to that of the NBA. And the disparity has only gotten worse. Yet Americans continue to watch the NCAA Tournament in huge numbers and not just because of gambling and office brackets. NBA fans watch March Madness to support their school, to watch tomorrow’s stars, to watch upsets, to watch wild finishes, to watch emotional stories unfold and most of all, just to watch basketball period. Just like many NFL fans warm up their couches for Sunday by watching college football on Saturday.
Is the quality of play in MLS inferior to the top European leagues? No doubt. But grounds fill up in countries all over Europe despite hosting leagues inferior to their neighbors in Italy, Germany, Spain, and England. That’s because soccer, like basketball, is a deep enough game for one to find beauty at any level.
This time of year, basketball fans revel in getting to watch hours upon hours of college and pro action. American soccer fans are spoiled for choice like that all year long. We can watch European action in the morning and then catch action from MLS, Mexico, Argentina and Brazil in the evening (and us west-coast fanatics can catch Japanese and Australian action during fourth meal time). A true soccer fan soaks in as much of the game as he or she can. We don’t do restrictive diets very well in this country, so don’t pick at your plate, gorge on soccer’s full buffet.
94 Responses to What March Madness Can Teach Euro Fans About Watching MLS
Good article. I’ve made the point about college football in the
past, but your right about basketball, and the smaller soccer
leagues in Europe. It is about connections, and getting off your
couch.
The NCAA tournament is all about “Do or Die”. Nothing about
inferiority or even quality of play. The winner is the one that
never loses a game. There can only be one. Simple as that. I don’t
know how you try to tie soccer or any other sport into this. Soccer
already has a tournament that may come close. It’s called the World
Cup.
“Soccer already has a tournament that may come close. It’s called
the World Cup.”……………………….have you heard about
something call the “FA Cup” , “Copa de el Rey”, “Copa Italia” etc,
etc, etc………………………………….so do you think
that the World Cup may come close to it?!………………..are
you aware that the last World Cup was played by 208 nations? More
than the 192 member nations that the United Nations counts with!
……………………sure joejoe, one day the Fifa World Cup
will get to be like the NCAA…..one
day……………………greetings from outside of the bubble!
Fantastic article. If you love soccer, then you should get out and
support your local side, whether it is MLS, NASL, USL, WPS
(unfortunately absent for the year), WPSL, W League, College, US
National Teams, whatever. There is nothing like going to a game in
person. However, there is nothing wrong with watching foreign
leagues either.
“If you love soccer, then you should get out and support your local
side, whether it is MLS, NASL, USL, WPS (unfortunately absent for
the year), WPSL, W League, College, US National Teams, whatever.” I
will not be guilt-tripped into giving my $ to Don Garber/Sunil
Gulati/Bob Kraft etc. @theakinet
Wait, you said cricket’s the #1 sport here…so fortunately for you
the I League is your local league. So hopefully you don’t feel
guilt-tripped to support that league.
It has nothing to do with those guys. It has to do with the players
on the field and showing that there is support for and love of
soccer in the United States. That is the only way that the sport
will grow in this country.
The title of this post is pretty misleading, and mostly because you
fail to articulately draw out the connection you’re hinting at.
Even then, the analogy is a pretty silly one. And that’s to say
nothing of the unbearable irony (that seems to be lost somewhere)
of calling for soccer fans to unite while simultaneously insulting
and denigrating a certain type of soccer fan. If we want to see the
end of euro-snobbery, we need to start being more accepting of
different sorts of fans. We’re not going to make allies (or ‘real’
fans, as were often apt to call them) by making fun of peoples’
fashion senses, no matter how off-putting or ‘fake’ they may seem
to us.
“if you truly love soccer as a sport, then you can watch all levels
of the game. “…………..so, we should not question that the
“single entity” system that MLS practices is completly oposit to
the true spirit of our
game?………………………………….Dont you think Mr
Coachie Ballgames ( real name? ) that by NOT including ALL of our
clubs/cities , and RESULTS not deciding who gets to division 1, but
the close doors decision of a commission, we are TOTALLY out of
tune with the practices of INCLUSION and MERITHOCRACY that are an
essential part of the international game?……………….Do you
think that soccer is beautyfull just because what goes on inside
the field?…………………….every time I bring on INCLUSION
and MERITHOCRACY, the same thing happens………….silence
couldn’t agree more. most eurosnobs dont watch MLS because they can
see right through the single entity and fake clubs that MLS puts
out there. MLS is a kumbaya league that ensures no club can reach
its full potential. Why should I watch a league that has teams that
have show EPL levels of support like Seattle, Portland, Montreal
and Toronto, yet are forced to abide by the same 2.8 million dollar
salary cap of chivas. Eventually fans are going to wise up. Fans
not watching MLS has little to do with the quality and more with
the structure.
Because watching clubs hemorrhage money just to exist is sooooooo
much fun
I’ll tell you why Jorge. Because MLS doesn’t want to go out of
business like all the other leagues before. Don’t watch. Nobody
cares. Pal carajo contigo.
name one league that has had pro/rel that has gone under? just one?
there arent any. plus just as many MLS teams are in the black as
there are in other leagues so clearly this single entity system
isnt creating all this money you thought. the only reason MLS is in
business right now is SUM and the ridiculous perks that come with
being an MLS owner, free of all risk and investment.
What does pro/rel have to do with anything? Nobody mentioned
pro/rel not the poster not the article. Not everything in soccer in
life has to do with pro/rel. And to your other point. Toronto
spends 5 times as much as Chivas. So does Seattle, LA spends almost
10 times. The answer to your question is India’s National Football
League started 1996 went under 2007. And it had pro/rel.
EVERYTHING has to do with pro/rel with these guys Prune. They tried
to pull the same crap with me a few months ago. Even the color of
each team’s kits have to do with pro/rel.
@alan, everything in life is about Pro/Rel. Wake up buddy. I highly
doubt you still use a Zenith Tv, Sony Walkmen or motorala razor
flip phone. Pro/Rel is all about pushing yourself to the next level
and not mailing it in hoping for a first round draft pick in the
next season.
You are right. I did upgrade to the best. I am not just happy to be
here. I actually did just achieve my dream job, and am not just
looking and watching someone else do it, which is what I would be
doing if I were West Brom. I would have just been satisfied with an
interview i.e. being included. My life doesn’t work in seasons
where even if I have a bad year I will be relegated and someone
else will be promoted that is not necessarily better than me. I did
upgrade to an iPhone, and no one is relegating me to a flip phone.
In a pro/rel world, only 20 would achieve it and next year the 3 at
the bottom would have to give it up to the three flip phone users
below me. “Wake up buddy.” Your analogy is stupid as are the people
that gave you a thumbs up.
What the hell are you talking about? Why are you talking about your
dream job? your response is idiotic
You said EVERYTHING is about pro/rel, not me. Why are you talking
about cell phones? That part of life is about pro/rel but getting
hired for a job isn’t? The point was that in your system, I would
have been happy to have been included in an interview. In my
system, I actually had a chance to get hired, and I did. In life,
you can actually win. In pro/rel, you are just there to see which
one of three can beat me so that they can win. In life, you keep
playing until you win. In your world, you just keep playing so that
others can see who wins between the “elite”. Idiotic would be a
nice word for your analogy. Mine is spot on. I am not the one that
keeps saying that pro/rel is about life. You are. There are not
leagues, seasons, 3 automatically go down and 3 automatically go
up, etc. in life. It is a sport, not life, but I am sure glad that
there is not some contrived pro/rel system in real life. I would be
watching the same 4 buy the success that I have achieved. In real
life, everyone has a realistic chance to win. But really, the “real
life” analogy is just dumb. Life is life and sports are sports.
read the first sentence and stopped. I feel bad for your new
employer
I know. It is about an eighth grade reading level. For that, I
apologize.
The next time I will dumb it down a bit for you.
@alan, hhahah you just burned yourself, you dummy. “its about an
8th grade reading level” -Alan. HAHAHAH,
Uh, stop and think about it for a second. I wrote it at about a
level that even an eighth grader could understand, but it was
obviously not low enough for Robert. Even that was too hard for you
to understand.
Can someone please tell me how you sustain a business model in the
US with pro/rel and no salary cap? Just wondering since some
jackasses like “roger 4 pro/rel” have no clue what they are talking
about. I swear some of you Euro posers are going to go your whole
life being upset at MLS and not enjoying having a league in your
own country that is going to be around for a long time.
@TUA, Why is it a RIGHT for MLS teams to exist? How does your life
change if MLS disappears?
americans, always think they know whats best. why dont americans
just open their friggin eyes for just alittle bit and look that a
club based structure is used all over the world, in leagues big and
small, rich and poor. how many of those have failed? now look at
USA checkered soccer past. every pro league before is a closed shop
league with franchises and look at all their failings. insanity is
doing something repeatedly and expecting different results. yea MLS
is growing but a growing league with diverse owners with their own
agenda to grow and profit from their individual franchises yet all
coming to agreement on players salaries, contracts, regulations and
different clauses; you have a recipe for a anti trust lawsuit. you
only have to look at the tract record of franchises vs club models.
seems like you have no idea what you’re talking about.
That didnt even make sense just so you know. Here is what it comes
down to. If you knew so much about running a sports league you
would be. But your not so if you dont want to support MLS then dont
and sit in front of your tv and pretend to care about a euro team.
Pro/rel will NEVER work in the near future. And BTW do you know how
many MLS clubs were profitable last year? TWO, seatlle and toronto
and it came right out of garber mouth. So again how do you sustain
a league where clubs are independent but have no profit? Seriously
some of you are really that dumb.
@TUA, answer the question. Why must MLS franchises be given special
treatment? After 17 years only two are able to turn a profit?!
Isn’t that the big complaint about pro/rel is that clubs overspend?
Well, MLS doesn’t have Pro/Rel and franchises are still
overspending! Simple: Revenue-Expenses=Net Income or Net Loss.
@Robert…i agree with you there but pro/rel is not the answer YET.
Where are these lower level clubs coming from? On top of that where
will the play? In the 3000 seat stadiums a lot of them have….And
yes major clubs overspen all over w/ pro/rel and then you have
clubs like Rangers and Portsmouth who are now bankrupt hence the
reason for a hard cap. No one is saying pro/rel and no salary cap
cant happen but not in the near future…
Non-profitability is acceptable for profit minded owners if it
ultimately increases the value of the team. If MLS owners all
demanded profitability, the league would have died a long time ago,
but they don’t. They just want something more sustainable than the
hard spending done in Europe. The unsustainable spending for some
of the larger teams is acceptable because the owners will just
inject more capital or exit ownership. Losing a ton of money with
no end in sight is unacceptable to the current owners of MLS.
Slight losses are okay. Heavy losses like with the NYRB (high paid
DPs without LA revenue streams) are okay because of brand exposure
that is reflected in the corporate culture in their other soccer
endeavors.
Overspending is not the main complaint in pro/rel since if
necessary, behavior modification will be mandatory. The problem is
that method is not the best way to grow the league in a country
where soccer is not the main sport and we don’t have a surplus of
well run teams that would keep 90% of its fans if it went down into
the 2nd tier. Look how it hard it has been for DC to get a stadium.
Except for the stadiums that were entirely privately financed, how
confident would one be in getting a revenue controlled facility if
an owner went to the city asking for them to pay for their share of
the stadium by selling bonds in a deal that could affect their bond
rating, and then warn them in advance that everything should run
smoothly and to the projections….unless the team gets relegated.
If I’m a city council member, I run far far away. Sure if there is
pro/rel, then I want unfettered spending and I want my team to do
use the resources of its owners to win titles and avoid relegation,
which is why you’ll never see a salary cap in a pro/rel league
because it would be unthinkable to hold back resources. Minor
league soccer is a hard sell here which is what most of the country
would be following because at least half of the 20 team top
division would be in the top 6 markets. Is this the best way to
grow the pro game here while inviting investment? Soccer’s relative
lack of popularity makes it difficult and while pro/rel makes it
relatively easy to enter the pyramid, the instability of pro/rel
makes financing unfriendly…unless you know a lot of owners
willing to build their own stadia.
I think what works all over the world would work here if soccer was
our major sport like most other places, but alas, it is not. A lot
of the MLS is based on not repeating the same mistakes that led to
the failure of the NASL such as no spending controls and not being
putting investors under enough scrutiny before being granted a
team, and as you say, insanity is doing something repeatedly and
expecting different results. Also, the league will disagree with
your anti trust assertions, since players are contracted by and are
paid for by the league. Remember when Nguyen wanted to sign with
Dallas, but the league ixnayed that because the terms were too
high? It doesn’t have the rampant free agency that other leagues
have and even the scrub draft at the end of the season is designed
to make player movement act like single entity. But maybe the
players will make a stink about it again in the future.
MLS has spending controls but is still OVER SPENDING! Two Clubs are
profitable out of the whole lot.
@Heimdall…Very well put. @Robert…Most clubs are not
overspending, they are just not generating enough revenue. Remember
your little business equation. Revenue minus Expenses equals
Profit? very simple that the clubs are just not making money.
@TAU, I’m sorry sir but you are not very bright. If expenses are
higher than Revenue(sales) YOU ARE OVER SPENDING.
@Heimdall…………..I think that you missuse the definition of
insanity when you use it to support the “old dirty trick”(remember
the old NASL!) for two reasons:………1) the old NASL did not
have a salary cap but did not practice Pro/Rel either. That changes
the whole equation!………. Ironically,, one of the conclusions
that you get when watching “Once in a lifetime” is that they folded
not only because overspanding but because the fact that they have
an “all powerfull” central office that made questionable decisions.
Well, just like you guys use the old NASL to make a case against
Pro/Rel ( which is ridiculous since they did not practice it! ),
you could make a very strong case against “single entity” because
the centralization aspect of it…………………….2) isn’t a
better fit to apply the definition of insanity when we are told
over and over that a Pro/Rel system will not work in america, even
that it works everywhere else?……………………….let me
throw an extra qestion in the mix: ….isnt it funny how they want
to promote rivalries, but in order to avoid antitrust sues they say
in court: “it does not apply to us, we do not have to compete
against each other, we are a single entity”…………So, I think,
if they not compete against each other, is it a soccer
league?…………or is it more a show like Cirque do Soleil?
think about it! Just like in MLS, in Cirque do Soleil the “actors”
wear different colors, and play different roles, but at the end of
the day, they are contracted by the same entity!
Heimdall wrote: “Overspending is not the main complaint in pro/rel
since if necessary, behavior modification will be mandatory. The
problem is that method is not the best way to grow the league in a
country where soccer is not the main sport and we don’t have a
surplus of well run teams that would keep 90% of its fans if it
went down into the 2nd tier…Soccer’s relative lack of popularity
makes it difficult and while pro/rel makes it relatively easy to
enter the pyramid, the instability of pro/rel makes financing
unfriendly…unless you know a lot of owners willing to build their
own stadia…I think what works all over the world would work here
if soccer was our major sport like most other places, but alas, it
is not.” *CLEARS THROAT* pre 1993 JAPAN no pro soccer. 1993
launched j. league. 1999 adopted germany’s pyramid with pro-rel. by
2005 j league was top-10 in the deloitte money list of leagues, and
ranked #1 in asia both financially and based on on-field
performance. and attendance is ~20K/game. 1996 (hmm, 1996? what
happened in US sports scene in 1996?) INDIA launches nfl with
semi-pro teams. 1997 add d2 with pro-rel. 1998 add d3. 2007 rebrand
nfl as i-league to raise professionalism. cricket’s the #1 sport
here AND foreign soccer leagues are very popular, but somehow the
i-league has survived. hmm. puerto rico has pro-rel and i’ll bet
basketball, baseball and boxing are all more popular.
While the J League and MLS both started in the 90s, if you compare
the two soccer scenes before formation, one can see that the J
League was a natural evolution of the JSL and many of the clubs
began well before the JSL. In the US, during that same period of
time, was marked by such instability with leagues appearing and
disappearing and clubs doing the same. Also, the amount of
corporate support given to clubs in Japan would never be matched
here. I’m glad the I-League is thriving, but I don’t like the
spread of average attendance in the first division. Sure East
Bengal, Mohun Bagan and Shillong Lajong get a ton of people, but
how about the lowest attended three teams in the first division?
And those top three teams are relatively close to each other
compared to the expanse of the country’s border. Also, with few
exceptions I-League teams play in stadiums too large for them.
There’s no pro/rel here, but the league is doing what it can to
have teams play in size appropriate arenas.
No Roger, I was using Alex’s definition of insanity, which is
repeating an action while expecting a different outcome. You should
address him if you have a problem with it. But pro/rel won’t work
here because we’re not like everywhere else. I didn’t talk to him
at all about pro-rel. All I did was mention about the failure of
the NASL was due to no spending controls and (here’s where your
central office comes in) the ease of which owners became a part of
the league and how MLS is run differently (salary cap and expansion
fee) to avoid the fate of the old league. MLS does not stifle
competition and is indeed a part of the global marketplace for
professional soccer, just as Cirque du Soleil competes with the
Ringling Bros, Shrine Bros, and whoever else is out there (etc).
Yes, it is a competition because once a player is signed, the
league lets the franchise do its own thing. You just have to
remember when it comes to player ownership and rights, those are
owned by the league. So for example, Mauro Rosales plays for the
Seattle Sounders, but his employer is MLS.
“But pro/rel won’t work here because we’re not like everywhere
else”………………………Is Japan like “everywhewre
else”?……….Is Puerto Rico like “everywhere
else”?………………..Is India like “everywhere
else”?…………….countries of all sizes, cultures, levels of
wealth, political systems, yet all sucessfully practice
Pro/Rel……………………you may be right Heimdall, Congo
Democratic Republic, El Salvador, Fiji and Denmark…………..all
kind of similar right?!
It is not very difficult to read on these forums and find out who
are the ones trying to misslead and disinformate………There is
only one definition of insanity, which is to do the same things,
and expect a different resut. So when you ignore the ovelwhelming
evidence of Pro/Rel being suscessfull in almost 100% of leages
around the world; and when you ignore than a pro/rel league has
NEVER EVER folded, and say:……”But pro/rel won’t work here
because we’re not like everywhere else”………….you are
expecting a different result right?………..if you are not, then
tell me ANY pro/rel league that have ever
folded?………………………and the “we are different”
argument which would be your only intellectual shelter, is just
ridiculous…………………..and yes MLS competes in the global
market-place because soccer is a global game. However, internally,
MLS does not compete against our other leagues (USL,
NASL)…..”just as Cirque du Soleil competes with the Ringling
Bros, Shrine Bros, and whoever else is out there”……..neither
MLS franchises compete on that way against each other! DO THEY?
……………………….and then we get to the NASL argument.
In your view they folded because:…..1)no spending controls
……2)the ease of which owners became a part of the league
(meaning : no $40/$60/$70 mil franchise fees)…………you only
make the central office responsible for not implementing the “right
rules”……..ignoring that when ” all the eggs are in the same
basket”=centralized systems, and the thing goes down, the whole
thing goes down!………..but all around the world club failures
do not take whole leagues down with them. ……………….your
last point is how single entity works(I see you really familiar). I
do undersatnd how a single entity franchise system
works…………………………………………………………
Just a question. If I buy a McDonnalds, can I sell jamaican
patties?…………………do you find a Seattle Big Mac tasting
different than a Portland Big Mac?
Everywhere else = places that like soccer more than we do, so
somewhere where soccer is in the top 5 is everywhere else and where
clubs have had a long, uninterrupted history. Japan has soccer
entities that predate WW2 and India has older ones. Do you think
South Korea want pro/rel? Champions in their 2nd division declined.
So I don’t think kleaguetalk.com is clamoring for pro/rel.
I know that in France, if you get a Royale with Cheese and a Le Big
Mac then they should taste like what they do here. I have been told
McDonalds does tailor their menu to their customers and I agree
that the system whether it is soccer or otherwise should make
adjustments for the specific environment. Adapt or die and
McDonalds wasn’t dumb enough to start in India with the US menu. I
read Fast Food Nation a long time ago…isn’t McDonald’s hamburger
meat from Brazil?
There are levels on the restaurant world . There are junk food
places, casual places like Red Lobster and Outback, and there are
five stars restaurants. Single entity makes us the MacDonals of the
football world, and no amount of tailoring or marketing or make up
can change that…………………..now, if we follow the
analogy. McDonalds is a legit business. I eat there every now and
then, but if I were allowed to ONLY eat there, that would be a
problem…………….well, that is what we have on US club soccer
when the USSF gave MLS exclusive division one status. If your city
does not have a MLS franchise, you are excluded, unlink to the
international club soccer structure…………………….. That
makes our lower divisions irrelevant and takes away any incentive
for growth at the lower levels………….. If you consider the
small number of “markets” ( using your language ) than MLS can fit,
compared to the size of our nation, with a great number of cities
of all sizes; how can they explain that placing the emphasis on a
fake summit, and neglect the base this is somehow good for the the
growth of the game on our nation?…………..I don’t think that
any intellectual acrobatics can justify that
Yes, I agree. It is good to have a choice in where to eat, and it
is good to have an alternate system when the usual way is not the
best way to go. Like I said before, imagine if McDonalds in India
offered the American menu. Market exclusion would be worse in the
US with a pro/rel system. Let’s look at La Liga teams examining
Spain’s most populous urban areas: 4 teams in Madrid, 2 -
Barcelona, 3 – Valencia, and 2 in Sevilla. That is more than half
of the teams in the top tier for just the top four markets. A
pro/rel system would exclude too many sizable US markets in the
first division. If we use La Liga as an example, there are 9 spots
for the remaining US markets. The 30th sized metro area here has
1.95M and most likely with this system, they would not be in the
first division. Second or third tier pro soccer cannot compete in
top 30 cities with NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, NCAA FB and BB for
attendance, tv ratings, media mention or sponsorship dollars. This
is what would make lower divisions irrelevant in this country.
Teams stuck at lower tiers would never get going and a team
accustomed to the top tier but falls down unexpectedly faces an
entirely dire economic reality.
Wait, is McDonald getting “promoted” to fine dining anytime soon?
No, they are trying the win the fast food market (d4) and be the
best at it. D1 is for 5-star dining, and they appeal to the proper
market. They can also start out as fine dining, and not get
relegated to fast food. They will fold before that happens. You
pro/rel trolls really crack me up.
@Heimdall. I have to thank you for keeping a clean debate going on,
and focusing on the issues. My respects for that. However, we
couldn’t disagree more……………..you said: “Market exclusion
would be worse in the US with a pro/rel
system.”…????????????……..I am going to pass on that one. I
honestly think you were high on something when you wrote
that………….On your second point you use “La Liga” in order to
argument that:.”A pro/rel system would exclude too many sizable US
markets in the first division”……….that is why MLS is in
Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Detroit, New York, Atlanta, New Orleans,
Baltimore, San Diego etc?………How could You?……….If you
compare the composition of clubs in Spain, France and Italy, you
will find something interesting. In Spain ( like you said ) there
is a level of concentration of clubs in a few larger areas/cities;
in France it is a lot more “spread”, first div clubs are from
different cities; on Italy you will find a great
contrast,…………..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serie_A#Serie_A_members_for_2011.E2.80.9312…..
only 5 clubs are south of Rome!………my point. Promotion and
relegation reflects the social/economical realities of countries.
By looking at the composition of first division clubs on Spain,
France and Italy, you can get a very good idea of how the
geographical distribution of wealth differs from one nation to the
other. It is a self adjusting system which mimics reality in more
than one way…………….. Reality is always changing, areas of
the nation that were on an economical high yesterday, are
struggling today ( Detroit, auto industry. South Florida, Real
Estate). People die and are given birth every year. By continuously
self-adjusting to those changes, Pro/Rel mirrors reality and also
the pass of time, making every season a new chapter on a developing
history, it gives our game a philosophical sense of
purpose……………” The 30th sized metro area here has 1.95M
and most likely with this system, they would not be in the first
division”………….. the fundamental problem is that there is no
way that any one league could fit all of our cities/clubs/markets!
It is just mathematically impossible!………..single entity
“solve” the issue of excluding market #30 by………EXCLUDING
market #30, and #31, and the rest………….pro/rel have a place
for all markets!…..Of course not all on first division, since
that would be impossible!……it will take a structure of linked
levels to fit them all…….pro/rel is not only the right answer,
if you think about it, it is the only one.
Pro/rel does a fine job in Spain (the largest urban area without a
team in La Liga is #8 Alicante-Elche and in France (the largest
urban area without a team in Ligue 1 is #8 Nantes) in having teams
in sizable population areas. Pro/rel would exclude major US markets
in the first tier as NY, LA, Chicago Dallas-Fort Worth and others
would have multiple teams in the league. It is not preposterous to
think that the top 4 most populous urbanized areas in the US could
take ten spots in the first div and crowd the second division as
well. It would be a necessity because the lack of these markets
would be terrible for television revenue. The Galaxy and the Red
Bulls have been last lately and so multiple teams are needed. How
much space is left for everyone else? Pro/rel and the multiple
teams in the same city will certainly crowd out large US markets
that will only come out for first tier soccer because their other
sports teams are first tier. Viewing the areas,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
there is a MLB team for just about each one in the top 30 and the
competition that exists between 2nd or 3rd tier soccer against MLB
for attendance, tv ratings, media mention and sponsorship dollars
is so overwhelmingly in baseball’s favor and the result is that the
soccer club will be ignored. KC just built a $200M stadium in a
private-public partnership. In a pro/rel system if such a
partnership were to happen, KC would have to present a minimum of 3
different projections for profitability for each tier and a city
would have to be nuts finance anything due to pro/rel’s
unpredictable nature. I agree with you that populous areas are
served in FR/SP with pro/rel, but 2nd and 3rd and 4th tier soccer
would be the destiny for too many large metro areas in the US
accustomed to a higher sports profile and any savings from the
expansion fee is negligible as owners will have to build their own
stadia. No matter what hope being in a lower tier brings no matter
how it connects this team to other clubs in the pyramid, the stigma
from anything other than first tier is too strong. Investment will
be directed toward greater opportunity as investors will prefer to
own the 5th NY club rather than the 1st Cincinnati club, excluding
smaller markets yet again. You mentioned 9 US cities and yes, MLS
are not in them, but this is just year 17 and note that save for
Orlando, they are all NFL cities. I hope you find this more lucid
this time, but pro/rel in the US brings greater market exclusion.
Also, it doesn’t help build to stadiums (it would force more to be
built as well) and large US cities don’t care about lower division
anything.
@Heimdall….Not only in Spain but everywhere pro/rel is practiced,
the result is the same, only the best clubs get the privilege to be
in the 1st div . If the 5th NY club makes more merits than the 1st
Cincinnati club, which one deserves to be on 1st div?. ……Any
market will have on 1st div, as many teams as they deserve to
have!……….If we want to create a league/structure that
respects and is in tune with the spirit and values that have made
this game the most popular on the planet, then, to be on 1st div,
is a status that all clubs ( INCLUSION ) should have the
opportunity to earn by their own merits ( MERITOCRACY), just like
the smallest nations on the planet are not excluded from playing
World Cup qualifiers…………….Single entity comes with a
price attached to it! To ignore the true spirit of our game (like
the anti pro/rel crowd allways do ), is the price that we pay by
implementing single entity. Such price is not only TOO HIGH, it is
UNACCEPTABLE!………….. there are also a few major flaws on
your post……Example: You argue that: ..”the lack of these
markets ( top 4 ) would be terrible for television revenue”…”so
multiple teams are needed”…since….”Galaxy and the Red Bulls
have been last lately”……….Here, you ignore a fundamental
difference between both systems. On a franchise system, mechanisms
like salary cap and draft, make sure there is parity, since, other
than the ocacional expansion, there is no renovation. It is mostly
the same teams over and over, year after year. They can not afford
disparity because some “markets” can disengage.( side benefit, they
Screw the players in the proccess ) ……..Pro/Rel, on the other
hand is a better reflection of life. The example on how in Spain,
France and Italy first div clubs are distributed geographically,
depending on their different population and wealth distribution, is
a good proof of it. So, using results on a parity system, to make a
prediction on a pro/rel system is incorrect! There isn’t a pro/rel
league where the Major cities dont have 1st div precense!…
….Add to that, that on pro/rel we dont decide which clubs make it
to 1st div; results do!….. So the:…” so multiple teams are
needed” point is totally irrelevant…………..There is more: can
you explain how “multiple teams in the same city will crowd out
large US markets”…if fans…”will only come out for first tier
soccer because their other sports teams are first
tier”…?????..How will they be promoted to 1st div with no
support?….wouldn’t it be more likelly that they end up relegated
rather than promoted?……So you make a connection between TV
revenue and market size, which is right( though partially. I’ll get
to that in a sec), then you fail to make a connection between
support and results, and “overcrowd” first div with unsupported
clubs!!!???…….By doing so, you fail to see the total circular
relationship: (bigger market)–>(more potential fans)–>(more
fans support)–>(higher potential club income)–>(higher
budget)–>(better players)–>(better on the field
quality)–>(better results/Higher TV revenue/more potential
fans) and so on!……………………………..I am sorry to
tell you that what I see in the first half of your post
is:………….. the projection of an assumption, based on a non
valid comparison, using an incomplete relationship…………….i
do not want to make my answer too long, so I will answer the 2nd
half on a separate post
@TUA……your post is a good example of what people against
Pro/Rel usually do…………….First, an insult that does not
bring anything to the dabate……………….then, the allways
present “old dirty trick”, ” If we do what almost 100% of soccer
leagues on the planet do, here the league would
fold!??”………………..my question about how, by ignoring
INCLUSION and MERITHOCRACY, we are in complete oposition to the
spirit of the game, does not deserve any answers? Right? It is not
important! completly ignore it!?.NO
COMMENTS!………………………but we have to explain how a
system that is practiced on soccer leagues world wide; will put us
in tune with the international game; include thousands of fans that
are excluded now; and give our club soccer a legitimacy that it
lacks now, will work? ………………………….clubs owners
make wrong decisions, and over-spend all around the world
(Portsmouth, Rangers etc), those clubs are either relegated, sold,
merge with other clubs,and in some cases they fold. It happens all
the time. The whole league does not goes down! .Do you guys
remember Necaxa? They play the first fifa Clubs World Cup and did
very good. Necaxa is on second division now. Did the mexican league
folded? River Plate was mismanaged for years, and is on the
argentinian second division now, a club with great history. Did the
argentinian league
folded?………………………but…..something tell me that no
logic exist that would make you guys get away from your beloved
“but…remember the old NASL” trick. The old dirty
trick!………………………….there is a saying in spanish
that goes:………………no hay peor ciego, que el que no quiere
ver……………..translates to something like:……….the
worse blind, is the one that does not want to see.
Roger, keep up the good work.
wonderful post. couldn’t have said it better.
Youre still not explaining anything. All youre doing is showing
other leagues in the world that have been around a hell of a lot
longer than MLS. You cant just up and have pro/rel…please explain
to me how the league does that and if you can ill buy into what you
are saying. Yet again ill say there is a reason that every single
owner voted for Garber and then gave him an extension. If the
people who are investing Billions into this league didnt feel it
was going in the right direction a change would be made. BUT they
all feel this is the best way to run the league and keep it viable.
Thats why a bunch of message board posters are not running the MLS.
Believe me most of you on this pro/rel and no salary cap are the
minority and if you knew so much you would be running the league
but your not. So my advice is stop trying to change things on a MLS
centric website and just dont be a consumer of the product.
“You cant just up and have pro/rel…please explain to me how the
league does that and if you can ill buy into what you are saying.”
india (founded 1996), puerto rico, china (founded 2004), japan,
singapore (founded 1996):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Super_League;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.League; “The National Football
League (commonly known as the NFL) was an association football
league competition in India between 1996 and 2007 which was
organised into three divisions. The league is now transformed into
the I-League and continues with that name. The Premier Division of
the league was first introduced in 1996, though the country already
had a long history in the sport thanks to the likes of the IFA
Shield and the Federation Cup. A Second Division was added to the
league in 1997, as Football in India grew to challenge cricket for
the title of India’s most popular sport.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_%28India%29;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-League Hmm… @theakinet
“Do you guys remember Necaxa? They play the first fifa Clubs World
Cup and did very good. Necaxa is on second division now. Did the
mexican league folded? River Plate was mismanaged for years, and is
on the argentinian second division now, a club with great history.
Did the argentinian league folded?” PREACH IT BROTHER! Btw, what’s
up with the page breaks? @theakinet
How does Wal-Mart do it? How does ESPN exist w/o salary-caps? What
about Kraft’s non-sports businesses? When Drew Carey (part of
Sounders group) signed to do “The Price is Right” did CBS have to
“fit him under the cap?” Did they have to trade-away Craig
Ferguson? Cancel CSI? Oh, and did you know India has had pro-rel
since 1996 with a bunch of semi-pro teams competing nationally?
Hmm, what year did MLS start?
They do already do it. They are called budgets. Most businesses
have them. Same concept You are smart
So in your opinion………….if they allrady “do it” and it is
just called differently…………….then what is exactly your
point? ………………that we dont need a salary cap!……in
which case I agree!………………..sorry TUA but I am having a
tough time understandind the logic on , very much all of your posts
@theakinet Wow that made no sense at all! TUA is exactly
right…They are called “budgets” in the business would and they
are smart to have in place. I wonder how some of you can sit on
your parents computer for so long and come up with this garbage?
Get over it, MLS is not going to have pro/rel and the majority of
fans are happy. HAHAHAHAHA
exactly! teams have bugets, don’t need salary-caps
damn, my battery died while writing the previous comment. i was
going to re-write that last comment: every *business* has what it
believes is an appropriate budget. what’s good for wal-mart isn’t
necessarily good for target. espn’s budget would bankrupt TruTV.
the rules governing one-entity, like, i don’t know, mufc, may not
be good for, well, rangers. so it’s dumb management to apply the
same rules to everyone. besides, player contracts have relegation
clauses (if management is smart, see portsmith).
http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/you-be-the-commissioner-what-would-you-change-10911……not
according to this pool made right on this site. ……………I
have asked several times Rober Hay, why no follow up to this
article, no comments AT ALL. ……………SILENCE ( not even with
a mile long pole they would touch it )……………finally one
time he answer me to explain why he had not made any coments, and
still managed to MADE NO COMMENTS!…………………..his
explanation was that there are allways new things to talk about,
and he should not get stuck on one topic. Like fans giving us and
indication that they would like to go on the oposit direction the
league is heading is just another equally important
issue!….notice the less than 1% than 10 teams play-offs
got!……….guess what we have?…………………..So MLSman,
as you can see from the link, you may want to be a little more
carefull when you throw out the word majority.
kinda funny to see this written back in 2010 and one of the lowest
rated items was 10 team playoff structure with 0.75% of the vote.
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
No salary cap because those businesses can find acceptable return
on investment for its talent. If all MLS teams doubled their salary
budgets (does the league run on a strict cap, no as the salary
range runs from 3M to 15M) will they see double the revenues? No,
not at this time. So is the answer to let the teams who can afford
it to spend? No, because eventually the lack of parity will turn
competition into a farce, which is not the best way to grow the
professional game in the U.S. We like superteams, just not those
that play on different economic playing fields. Also, toss business
principles out the window. For those businesses you mention, they
can tolerate short term losses if profits come long term. What CEO
would keep a subsidiary open, one that has been operating for
decades and well past its growth stage (at its current level of
investment) when all it does is drain the main company for its
expenditures. But this is pro soccer which allows losses at a small
scale and at a larger scale at the Chelsea or Manchester City end.
Parity doesn’t even exist right now. Galaxy in the past 10 years
made the MLS Cup final 5 times.
I’m not looking for parity in the sense that it’s a certain team’s
turn for a title, but I would like the teams in the league to play
in a similar economic playground so that their choices in player
acquisition is more of a determinant of winning the title than
spending to keep it as interesting a competition as possible for a
growing soccer nation. Would I like them to open up the purse
strings a little more, yes. If my team could spend its profit, then
in my best Worfian voice, I would say that team would be
formidable. But I remember when the max salary was 250k and a
decade ago when the league almost folded to the building of
stadiums to paying DP salaries to Kansas City and Ongoal showing
those older MLS teams a way to run their teams and also how it is
now with attendance at a healthy median and that there is no
question today about the league’s survival. I don’t know where you
live but I could see someone having a gripe with the league if
there wasn’t a team around them and if they thought the expansion
fee was too much of a barrier to entry or be excited by the new
attendance figures and wonder how good the league could be if they
spent their own (and their owner’s) money. All I know for certain
is that if the top league in the US is one where there’s a big 5
that is always in the top 6 while the invader in the top 6 will
never win a title, then that league won’t grow the game here. Thank
goodness we’re in CONCACAF and not in Uefa where CL money really
messes things up for domestic leagues.
easy reply: CONCACAF CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
Not really…Toronto advancing farther than LA or Seattle doesn’t
really change the competitive balance for MLS cup just as Salt Lake
getting to the final didn’t enhance their chances.
It is funny in American soccer circles how the “casual fan” is
hated by guys who only watch the top teams in the world. The same
guys who are dumb enough to think they are NOT a ” casual fan”.
Those same guys of course hate college soccer
too………………..Enjoy your soccer and dont ever apologize
for rooting for the home team……………….bullsear, who says
anyone who watches and is looked down at by a Euridiot wants to
“become friends” with them?
Wait. Hold on. Let me get this strait;
The American soccer FANS need to learn a lesson from a 345-team,
nation-spanning, healthy and vibrant “lower division” and its
nationally televised 64-team championship that offers satisfying
rewards for success to both players and supporters?
lower division ? what are you talking about ?……….Like US
Soccer, the NCAA have completely seperate divisions with different
tourneys……and never mix the teams ever…….And they have
conference to seperate the whole NCAA first division into geo
regions………and a playoff to determine the champion……sounds
to me like MLS has already learned the lesson, the fans ?
NCAA tourney BBall is the most overratted boring event and way
overhyped, it is so boring and I am a Baskatball fan! Nothing beat
the home atmosphere at a College Batketball regular season game
like in East Lansing at the Breslin Center for example, I don’t
understand the buzz about watching two teams on a neutral site with
7000 in the stands… Thank God for the start of the MLS season and
the record crowd in Montreal this weekend!
Aren’t you the new guy to this site of trolls ? Did you go to the
Impact game ? That much have been awesome when Arnaux
scored…………….Gaffer, you should do an article on how there
have been pockets of enourmous in MLS…………….TSN ratings
have been great. The Toronto CCL game sell-out, Montreal getting
60k, Sounders and Timber will break last years attendance marks, LA
with very good TV contract. I promise not have a heart
attack…..but I won’t be holding my breath either.
yet all those teams are limited to the same tiny salary cap even
when they have HUGE numbers of support and have multi billionaire
owners.
MLS is in business not for the love of the sport (the founding
execs were NFL gurus) or the competition of the sport, but for the
entertainment aspect of it to make profits. If MLS sees its numbers
growing in fan audience while providing the same, I hate this word,
“product” then MLS will be reluctant to change. Remember MLS key
demographic is not hardcore soccer fans but the casual fan so that
they can be a fan and consumer of MLS, not soccer, but MLS the
brand, philosophy and product. Players can push for their equal
fifa rights ever cba but since MLS is one huge single entity its
either MLS way or they pack up, close up shop and leave hundreds of
players without a job in all of north America. So long as they can
squeeze as much as they can from the meger $2.8 million they are
not going to change, no matter how big a support they generate
The league lost $250M by 2000, $350M by 2004. I’m sure the owners
had other opportunities with their investment. Lamar Hunt owned
teams in every decade since the 60s, which was when he started
watching the game and went to World Cup matches as much as he
could. He built the stadium in Columbus when the city didn’t want
any part of its financing. You say that the MLS was created solely
for profits, but for the owners who stayed in it for the long haul,
their actions say otherwise. Remember, the MLS key demographic is
not the hardcore soccer fan because with the exception of the
Mexican primera soccer fan, all other measureable television
ratings for professional soccer is quite small. Although the league
has hardcore soccer fans, the casual fan is necessary for growth.
Fortunately, soccer is attractive to key demographics.
All this hate about salary caps, yet the NFL maks more money than
anyone single soccer league in the world. Add together the revenue
generated by the MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL and you’ll dwarf any soccer
league. If a salary cap is such a hindrance why does the highest
the grossing league in the world have one and succeed so well?
jorge said: “yet all those teams are limited to the same tiny
salary cap” Please tell me what that tiny salary cap is? 2 MLS
teams have payroll >$10m. Four have payrolls over $5m. So again
what is the salary cap? MLS has a salary budget and there is no
limit to how you can spend.
Hey Ben…it’s true that the number of neutrals lessens the
atmosphere, but for the first round that is played on Thursday and
Friday, there are 16 games each day and with it comes a ton of fun
action with teams unfamiliar with each other. Yes, Thursday lack
the normal amount of buzzer beaters and upsets but I was happy to
see the two #2 seeds smoked on Friday. People are watching these
games that are running on four different channels at a time and
it’s such a enjoyable television experience to the extent that it
has slightly lessened attendance at games. And the NCAA is fine
with this because any loss in attendance revenue will be easily
made up for during the next television contract. I think the way to
go is to travel to the conference tourney and then watch the first
and second round (thu-fri-sat-sun) on the couch at home, even if my
team’s in it and then travel to the sweet 16 games and beyond.
I watch MLS (or at least try to). I am active in discussions about
MLS, its teams and players (and no its not to berate them, its
actual discussion) and i actually watch and pay attention more to
mls than europe and I know about MLS. So I’m not a soccer ignorant,
euro snob or soccer phobic. With that being said boo hoo hoo to you
that whines how “euro snobs” don’t support MLS and instead watch
epl or la liga. But this discussion is like trying to fit a square
peg in a round hole. First off MLS, most of nasl and usl pro are
reletively new. Therefore you can’t manufacture fans over night.
True authentic support takes years to develop and only recently has
the second generation of MLS fans are emerging, most of them being
in their late teens. Second I agree with Jorge and roger, there’s a
certain cheesyness to MLS that leaves a sour fast in the mouth. One
with the nicknames, faux club structure, kumbaya atmosphere, single
entity structure that limits competition and promotes mediocrity
and the wanna be hardcore euro ultras that are restricted by MLS
and stadium security yet at the same time turn around and market
off their backs. And don’t get me started on the announcers that
hollers at fans to get loud and put your scarves up and I quote
“for the NBC sports network”. Yes they did say that. Its that kind
of commercialization and faux simulation soccer that turns people
off. I’m sure that MLS will mature both competitively (getting rid
of single entity if they don’t want another anti trust lawsuit) and
culturally as people and execs start to understand soccer culture.
Need I remind you that our all power full don garber admitted to
not understanding the culture. Finally the biggest thing is that
all over the world big and small there exist clubs, we have
franchises. One could argue that today’s clubs operate much like
franchises but still. Bundesliga requires all clubs to be majority
owned by fans. All in all MLS still has alot of change to and time
to pass before it can start demanding the attention of those who
watch superior authentic soccer. I hope that one day MLS will get
there but with a sub par quality, inability to compete
internationally, inability to actually compete in the transfer
market for actual players, and overall cheesyness to it all, MLS
has alot of work before it can start demanding attention. You can
say oh if you want change then support so MLS can have the money to
improve. You do realise that if MLS sees its fans content with the
current state of the league they will be reluctant to change. You
don’t see coke changing its formula every year just cuz its daily
consumers increase every day.
Who’s content? Not the Don:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/freddreier/2012/03/16/mls-cheif-we-need-a-broader-audience/
Forbes needs a new url checker person. Yeah, I agree with some of
the nicknames. Real Salt Lake makes no sense and then for the teams
with the FC in them like Dallas and Toronto, I wish that since they
chose the generic city + FC (or its reversal) formula that they’d
pick a spicier nickname than Reds or Hoops.
Wow, Garber/MLS is taking Credit for Timbers fans standing in the
rain. Are you sure it wasn’t the faux promotion you granted them
Mr. Garber?
At least you are a fan, or you watch. I will give you credit for
that. All of these other boneheads don’t watch, troll MLS blogs
talking nonsense, and expect someone to listen to them. Why should
they? They are not fans, won’t support practically anything about
US Soccer, and expect anyone to take them seriously. Maybe if MLS
viewership jumped, NASL and USL attendance went up, and they
started a real movement AS FANS of US soccer play (not the owners)
something will change for them. It should be pretty obvious by now
that Don Garber is not listening to these nutjobs. I am sure he is
at least smart enough to see that they are not and will never be
soccer fans and therefore has no reason to listen to them.
POTENTIAL US soccer supporter does not cut it. Protesting the way
that they will never change anything.
I agree! Does anyone really think that DG really is like “well all
the message board posters who dont watch MLS say they would if we
have pro/rel and no salary cap…maybe I will implelent that to win
them over”? No, because at the end of the day they are still going
to feel US soccer is not England or whatever, and they will still
troll MLS sites.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eurosnob This will
interest some of you
Wow. The people who wrote that must be really really sad. I got one
for you. Typical The Mls fan; see proud ignorant American for
definition.
OK Troll. Go watch Man U and pretend to care.
No, he’s not sad….I’m sure he’s just a little tired of people
bashing his league.
What about people living in the 38 states that don’t have a MLS
team?
The league is still a teenager but think about a possible future
with MLS roughly being in the same cities where the NFL is plus LA
and 4 Canadian cities. It doesn’t totally solve the problem but
pro/rel doesn’t either since the largest US cities will have
multiple teams in the first tier. Large US cities won’t care about
lower division soccer no matter how connected it is. The Pirates
have been losing since Bonds-Drabek-Van Slyke-Bonilla team broke up
and if you present the option of going to the Pirates or second or
third tier soccer, the answer is obvious. Other stuff too like
stadiums but…please read my recent reply to Roger today if you
care. But solve the problem of lower division ickiness, the lack of
competitive balance, financing stadiums under pro/rel’s
unpredictablility, economic shocks from going down and going up and
the other gripes I have in my message above if you ctrl-f 1:52,
then I’m all for pro/rel. Then there’s the reality that the current
mode of entrance to this country’s top tier is paying an expansion
fee and suddenly you want to stop that. We both know that the only
way that stops is if the league dies and it is stable now. While
the league hasn’t been declaring widespread profits, they’ve been
rapidly expanding with the spectre of completed contraction and
great recessions and and I suspect that the new teams (except
ChivLA and SJ) are doing decently financially and that could spur
future investment if their approach is sustainable. Once the league
gets better tv contracts nationwide and locally, everyone will want
in. Look at expansion this century and all of those teams except
for ChivLA, SJ, and SL (because Salt Lake is small and will lose a
competitive advantage if money increases as an issue) want to spend
more along with older teams like NY, LA and KC. If enough teams
want to spend more, then the cap and DP numbers will increase.
This is purely supply side economics and central planning at best.
MLS Motto: BUILD AND PRAY THEY WILL COME. You speak with such
authority but please name one league on this planet that has failed
because of Pro/Rel.
Answer a more relevant question, please…name one relevant
professional league that currently runs a pro/rel system in the US.
Forgive me if you detect pomposity, but as an outsider judging from
the past decade, the league will reach 30 teams before it contracts
to 0. But who really knows, maybe in ten years the league will die
like the NFL in India or maybe the MLS teams with the better
financial profiles break away from the rest like when the
premiership was formed. And what do you mean, build and pray they
will come…if anything ownership groups reacted to demand. All of
those former USL teams (SEA/VAN/POR/MTL) saw a rosier future
elsewhere. Remember when Saputo initially balked at paying the
expansion fee and then caved. AEG was forced to move the
Earthquakes to an area where they anticipated demand, but the
league returned to SJ and now both cities will have quality
stadiums. The Sons of Ben were established and predated the Philly
group’s expansion fee. What’s wrong with central planning? Remember
when the Football League merged with the Football Alliance and then
another merger occurred with the cream of the Southern League. They
had to form some sort of system now that they had an abundance of
teams…more teams than what they knew to do with, but this was
during a time when semi-professional teams could stand toe to toe
with professional teams in talent and infrastructure in a sporting
culture that is not as sophisticated as current day American
sports.