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Turbulence (EPL Talk Review Podcast)

It made it so much harder for them to come together, whereas in the eight games he had prior to the end of the season last year. It was pretty easy for him to get that unity because none of the players wanted to be relegated and they were all pretty demoralized from having Martin O’Neill as their tactician for the previous 16 months. That probably makes for the fact that the games were often because it’s the end of the season and teams were desperately chasing points. I think it was a perfect storm for him. Whereas this season, he’s just been too naïve on too many fronts and I don’t think all of it was due to his age because he is 45.

Speaker 1: Sometimes you don’t want the storm to continue, you want them to be some calm weather. I guess the impressive thing here Kartik is how quickly Sunderland have acted. Really it’s quite interesting to look at how quickly in to this season this club effectively pulled the trigger.

Speaker 4: Yes, I think what happened last season was that Sunderland stuck with Martin O’Neill for entirely too long. Matt has referenced earlier that both he and I believe that Sunderland would have been relegated if they continued with O’Neill, yet they didn’t dismissed O’Neill until March. These signs of Sunderland’s malaise began right from the beginning of the season. They were very direct tactically but they didn’t have a Plan B and they let it go on for a long time. When they brought Di Canio, I agree with Chris also, it was a perfect storm but was also a much needed change at that point because I firmly believe that Sunderland would have been relegated under O’Neill.  Actually Wiggin would have stayed in the league which means maybe the chain of events from [inaudible 01:11:09] Martinez going to Everton doesn’t happen.

Now it seems like they need someone who is going to take the squad, which was completely remade during the course of this summer, several double digits transfers, 12 or 13 new players in. Most of them have not [inaudible 01:11:27] with English football and work with them, There’s a language barrier Chris discussed so you have to have maybe a manager that speaks Italian that points to Robbie Di Matteo doesn’t it. And someone who can mold all these personalities together because it is a fractured dressing room. It is a fractured squad. It’s a club that is very, I think, is very much feeling like they’ve under achieved in a city with a massive supporters base. Also an owner in Ellis Short that has continued to throw money down the drain one manager after another, one transfer window after another, allowing new managers to remake the squad and those managers ultimately failing.

Speaker 1: Matt, moving forward I guess Allen Kerveshi’s wife is running the atrium. She’s kind of excited like we were saying pre-pod – oh, Allen you’ll never guess what, it’s everything we’ve prayed for more.

Speaker 2: She got an email notification from the Premier League there was an opening.

Speaker 1: Yes, yes exactly, yes.

Speaker 2: [Crosstalk 01:12:36]. I’ve been doing some monitoring. The Twitter is saying this, but of course that means that there is now a vacancy, the first vacancy in the season. Who’d have bet on Paolo Di Canio being the first one to vacate.

Speaker 2: Nobody saw this one coming.

Speaker 1: We’ll talk about Paolo – I guess now would be a good time to talk about Paolo Di Canio but we kind of have. I think there was nothing out of this when he first came. I don’t think he’ll be amount of the job for too long. There’ll be someone else who needs relegating .

Speaker 2: I’d be surprised. Honestly, I think he’s done a lot of damage to his reputation.

Speaker 3: You don’t think there’s a team possibly in a lower league that would give him a chance, especially after [inaudible 01:13:17]?

Male: [Crosstalk 01:13:18]

Speaker 2: This is kind of the problem is that when he left Swindon ignoring all the breaking and distilled photographs of himself and other narcissistic tendencies after hours, he spent an awful lot of money on agents. He brought in 24 players. Yes he got them up but, again, it’s at what cost. Swindon were in transfer and Bogos and had to sell Matt Richie up the leagues [inaudible 01:13:45] just to keep the lights on quite literally. You can’t really be Machiavelli in these days when you want to try and get promotion in the lower leagues, you have to be quite shrewd. I think that really his caught in something of a bubble now in terms of he’s not really shrewd enough to work in the lower leagues and it seems like he’s not diplomatic or composed enough to work on the top leagues.

Speaker 1: Of course Matt, where does Sunderland go from here?

Speaker 2: I don’t know. There’s room is – the betting – we’re working on the betting because they simply get it right more off than they get it wrong. They’ve got Roberto Di Matteo as odds on favor at the moment. Like how Kurtik said, that would make sense. He speaks Italian, a strong Italian core at the club. The fans [inaudible 01:14:38]. On the other hand they could go and there are people on Twitters and the Genesis assessing that they’re going to potentially look for a British route. Honestly, I don’t know if the club know, we’ll see.  It’s all speculation. I think Roberto Di Matteo would be a good choice. From the personal point of view, I would not be unhappy with Roberto Di Matteo. I think he is a good coach and he plays [inaudible 01:15:06] should be a bit pleasant for some known fan. We’ll see, we’ll see how it goes. It could be anyone. It could be Allen Kervishi, with any hope.

Speaker 1: Christian, whatever led to this is obviously quite a big thing. How much of it do you see as a balance of Di Canio? How much of it do you see as a balance of his dressing room kind of leaning towards this?

Speaker 2: I think ultimately his management is what has cost him. There was no consistency from him.

Speaker 1: What about the West Brom game, et cetera? How much is his own size contributed towards this poor downfall and how much has he  sort of figured in terms of factoring in.

Speaker 2: I think his decisions have obviously fact in. Like I said, still only playing 4-4-2 when you’ve got such a language barrier is a wise idea because I think the 4-4-2 you need to be very compact and you need to be very organized and you can’t do that when your players don’t speak the same language. Some of them can’t even string together basic phrases or sentences in another language which is not a criticism, you know we’ve all struggled at the linguistics I imagine when we were in school. You have to face the facts and I think sometimes that was Di Canio’s problems was that he got lost in the fact and he cared too much for himself preservation. There were moments and facets of his approach that I quite like. I thought [inaudible 01:16:41] two session a day and got the players fit and focused on diet hat was very good and you could see benefits of that I think in Adam Johnson’s specifically in how trimmed he looked.

Throwing players under the bus in public was never going to be a wise idea. I think when you’ve got such problems like that you need to fester a collective very quickly. You can’t do that when you’re saying to Sky Sports that John O’Shane hasn’t been good enough and you’re saying one minute that Cabral is your first choice central mid fielder thus why you [inaudible 01:17:12] go, the next minute he’s seventh choice.

Speaker 1: Seven is a long drop. What do we actually think about the performance against West Brom there Matt?

Speaker 2: I don’t think it was a three-nil performance in terms of I don’t think West Brom was good enough to win three-nil. I think at times – again it was just typical performance this season so far. At times they looked good and they got bogged down in their attempts to play and they kind of created half chances for the front two but nothing clear cut where you think that they should have scored. Then they just let themselves down by really just lack of concentration at the back. [inaudible 01:18:02] it’s a cliché but you can’t get away with it at this level. You cannot get away with continued mistakes in defensive situations.

I don’t think that [inaudible 01:18:13] good gaming goal as well, that’s been amazing criticism at the club in general not just [inaudible 01:18:19] the fact that people are trying to taking it [inaudible 01:18:23] they’ve allowed [inaudible 01:18:24] to go.  The fact that [inaudible 01:18:28] and that’s completely understandable, but it is a step down. [inaudible 01:18:32]is not at that level. I think the performance yesterday wasn’t the reason why Di Canio was sacked. It wasn’t particularly any worse than some of the ones that have been this year but it was just an accumulation of things and it kind of showed what had gone wrong. It was a microcosm of things that had gone wrong throughout the season.

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  1. Jake

    September 25, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Long time listener, first time poster. Just wanted to point out Kris’ silence during the Ramsey/Piers Morgan discussion. I actually am a big fan of his analysis, but towards the end of last season, I remember a number of his articles on Soccernet advocating for Ramsey’s dropping/sale.

  2. Kartik Krishnaiyer

    September 24, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Good point Adam Heap.

  3. Adam Heap

    September 24, 2013 at 7:01 am

    I love listening to this podcast, but sometimes I wish you guys would all show a little support for the sides you follow! Kartik, you could hardly have sounded less enthusiastic about how well your club played in the derby (in spite of their history in derby matches, I know) – we all know which teams the presenters are backing, show some love for them every now and again – we know you need to be unbiased but supporters can’t help but love our clubs!

    • Jake

      September 25, 2013 at 8:27 am

      I dont think Morgan holds anything back…

      • Morgan Green

        September 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm


  4. Kartik Krishnaiyer

    September 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    I thought I mentioned Marshall but perhaps not. In fact I don’t know if I was called upon during this game, but it was late and we were trying to get the pod done. Lloris could have been sent off for that handball, as we saw a similar call last week. I don’t think Cardiff played with ten men behind the ball the entire game having now watched the full 90. Cardiff at times in the second half played a higher line and kept the ball.

    If you feel we don’t cover Spurs closely enough or are too biased towards Arsenal (an accusation you and some other Spurs fans have made towards me which conveniently ignores that Arsenal has finished ahead of Spurs for 17 consecutive seasons and with that they have earned some deference when compared to Spurs)we’d love to have you come on the podcast. Your points are well taken on this game. But understand with PSG-Monaco the biggest game of the weekend was on at 2:55 as was Milan-Napoli and having some other items to complete I didn’t get a chance to watch the game as closely as I would like before the pod. I have now watched it entirely. I also think this win indicates Spurs are a likely top 3 team as they have fared better than Everton and Man City (both outside the top 3 right now in my estimation) in South Wales. In fact this result gives Spurs more points in South Wales than City has in three trips to the area the last 3 seasons so that counts for something.

    Again, apologies. We try our best but sometimes it’s not good enough I suppose. If you want to help us with prep or even coming on in the future to discuss Spurs that’d be great!

    • Balboa77

      September 23, 2013 at 8:34 pm

      Dust on the podcast is a must listen for me. I am convinced “Dust” is a combination of people yelling at a computer screen while one person types. MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

      • Dust

        September 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm


    • Dust

      September 23, 2013 at 9:29 pm

      Thanks both of you for responding…

      I don’t think you are anti spurs, it’s a good example of a game that didn’t have the review it should’ve…

      I check back in every now and again, to see what changes (if any) there are to the coverage, esp with the changes on the site.

      Anyways…Thank you for asking, if time allows I’d be interested.

      • jtm371

        September 23, 2013 at 9:37 pm

        do it it would be EPIC!

        • dust

          September 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm

          Im happy to do it, Chris reached out for the king interview. If at some point they want it to happen i’m sure they will reach out, they have a million and one things going on.

      • COYS_USA1

        September 24, 2013 at 12:17 pm

        If Dust cant do it I would love to be on the pod

        • Balboa77

          September 24, 2013 at 8:58 pm

          No one invited you.

  5. Dust

    September 23, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    It sounded like no one watched the Spurs game, here are some talking points from the game oh…and it was Naughton was at left back, not Vertonghen.

    Cardiff’s keeper played out of his skin, he was peppered with shots and some how kept them out. It was complete domination by spurs…

    Cardiff no17 holding Lloris arm as the corner came in while another player used Dawson as human ladder for the disallowed goal they had.

    Lloris handled the ball on the edge (started on the line but handled it over the line too) of the 18m, after another dodgey back pass from Naughton.

    The football Spurs played was very very good, Cardiff had to play with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes.

    Lamela made the difference when he came on, as a very tired Cardiff couldn’t cope with his trickery and runs between them, yes Holtby played his part and did well.

    I can’t believe its co-incidence that when I choose to listen its only then that the summary of non major games are so poor.

    Cardiff’s keeper absolutely deserved a mention after putting on a performance similar to YL for WHIFC Paulinho & Dembele were sublime.

    Conceding 1 goal in 8 games (5 in BPL) for Spurs and scoring 16 best defensive record in BPL. And yes that’s quite an achievement with Dawson at the back.

    Contributors to the pod in the u.s have access to the games On Demand within an hour or so of them finishing, maybe I’m crazy, but perhaps someone from WST on the pod should watch, and then report.

    Just a thought.

    • Christopher Harris

      September 23, 2013 at 4:58 pm

      To be fair, the Tottenham match was being played at the same time as the biggest match of the weekend. Damn the Europa League!

      I’m sure a lot of people were watching the Arsenal-Stoke match instead of the Palace-Swansea one, too 😉

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