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Turbulence (EPL Talk Review Podcast)

Then, on top of that, he’s compounded that with his war of words about Mata. Of course, Mata and Luiz and Torres, if you play them where they played last season, that means they’re just simply taking Benitez’s squad. We know the Mourinho-Benitez feud. We know the Chelsea-Benitez dynamic. We know all of these things and Jose is more concerned about playing games with this than actually just producing results. Now, this is a different Premier League that Jose left in 2007. He must realize this is a more competitive atmosphere and these sorts of games with the media aren’t going to go as far as mind games with opposition and mind games in his own sides. Maybe he’ll be proven right in the end. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong but right now I just don’t understand what he’s doing unless he’s just engaging in another bout of narcissism and defense.

Speaker 1: I do find it a little bit annoying though when people criticize and I particularly find it annoying when [inaudible 00:51:32] Morgan criticizes anyone.  Iin particular, I’m finding it difficult this season when we’re talking about the likes of Moyes, Mourinho and we’re talking about Mata. We’re talking about Kagawa and we’re saying why aren’t they playing them in the squad as if somehow we know better and we have the inside track on these things. Surely, there are reasons behind these things. I just think, very often, it leads to us criticizing, often unnecessarily, other players who have taken those positions in the squad such as sometimes as Ashley Young or as got in the firing line this week from [inaudible 00:52:02]. Oscar, who has been arguably, had a solid start to his Chelsea.

Speaker 3: Yes and I think the difference for me at least between Moyes and Mourinho is that Mourinho has come out and basically said, “Look, Oscar is the guy that I want in the number 10 role. I’d like Juan Mata to play more out on the right, ” which he’s done in the past. He played out there for Valencia. He’s never really done it a lot here at – he done it occasionally at Chelsea but it has not really been his thing. He’s been more of the classic number 10 for them.  He’s come out and said that he wants him more out on the right and that his game, when he is playing out on the right is not what he’s looking for whereas Moyes has just got a left, Kagawa on the bench and just saied, “Well, that’s that. He’s on the bench.”

I think that’s just the difference between those two right there but again, Oscar had a great year last year for his first year in the Premier League for a guy of his age to come out and do what he did, I think, was absolutely fantastic.  Mourinho said he is what he wants in a number 10. He’s the guy that he wants this team to go through and I think you saw it against Fulham. The first half was just absolutely awful in that game but whatever he said in the second half, Oscar went out and got the goal, granted it was a bit of a poacher’s goal but he still scored the goal and he looked fantastic in the second half. It just shows kind of the riches that Chelsea have in that central attacking midfield role of well, we’re not going to play Juan Mata there, we’re going to put Oscar there. We’re still going to be able to perform well.

Speaker 1: Christen, there was a kickback to the time in the Confederations Cup when it was basically, Miguel scored a goal and everyone again, goes, “Oh, he can score.” and then half the population on Twitter go, “Yes, but I knew that this time because he used to be [inaudible 00:54:04], et cetera.”

Speaker 2: Yes. There was a lot of closet Norwegian football fans when Miguel was …

Speaker 1: They’ve been aware the rainbow laces.

Speaker 2: … [inaudible 00:54:15] Again, it’s one of those things where [inaudible 00:54:24] broken clock right twice today. He’s going to score now and again but they’ve still, well, not manipulated, still crafted them into a player I don’t think he was ever really meant to be which is a deep lying sitting the field. I think he’s been typecast based on his appearance. I would still like to see what he’s like and in fact, I think, given the right time and the right training, he could still be good there, perhaps not the same level of Yaya Toure but a similar kind of player at least. The unfortunate thing now is he’s a little bit older so it’s going to be difficult to improve his technique significantly enough to operate in those tight spaces. Perhaps, you’re lumbered within being what is now. Not …

Speaker 1: Well, yes, maybe he physically developed into this and mentally developed into this. There’s very much still some of the instinctual parts of him still there but it will difficult and possibly unnecessary for him to be moved back to that, at least in the Chelsea team anyway. Kartik, an interesting thing I think I’d like you to continue that thought that you were on earlier about kind of the evolution of Mourinho now, seeing him lose, et cetera. It’s been difficult when the veneer of Mourinho has dropped in the past and there is another potential stumbling block in Swindon this week in the Capital One Cup.

Speaker 4: No, they’ll be fine against Swindon in the Capital One Cup but again, there has to be some recognition from Jose that he’s come back into a difficult situation. Look, he’s gone into front running clubs in the other domestic leagues. He’s gone to in between his time leaving England. Now, Roberto Mancini had won the title several seasons in succession at intern. Now, Mourinho did get them a European Cup triumph but he inherited a squad there. Same thing in Real Madrid, he inherited a squad in Pelligrini that was very good that had 96 points the previous season. I guess he improved on what [inaudible 00:56:27] and Pelligrini had accomplished but maybe, only marginally, in the mindset of many Madrid supporters and he wore out his welcome there.

He also claimed there was a conspiracy where Barcelona were getting all the calls in European matches and provided no evidence of such a conspiracy and made this declaration very public. I think since then, the media has been more skeptical of Mourinho since that semifinal in 2011 when he made these allegations. He comes back into England in a situation where it’s much more competitive where the side he’s inherited has not won the Premier League the last three seasons. Unfortunately, he replaces a manager whom he loathes who has achieved European success with the club. Even though he mocked it by saying, “Well, the Europa League is not a Chelsea level competition”.  If you call that a competition, you might as well try and win it which is what happened and Benitez isn’t the one that got eliminated in Europe, it was actually, De Mateo that put them in that position.

I cannot understand his psychology right now. Mourinho is a very smart individual and we know this.  Very manipulative individual also, as well. He’s imparted a positive sense of victimization, if you understand what I mean, in his squad. Chelsea acted like the victims. They played like they had a chip on their shoulder but they used it well to conquer the Premier League, create perhaps the best squad in the history of the Premier League. That’s debatable but perhaps the best squad in the history of this league. Now, he comes back into a situation where things are not as they may have appeared to him when he was sitting in Spain. This is not going to be an easy job by any stretch of the imagination and he’s firing off, making excuses about things and alienating, to me, the guy who was clearly the most influential player on that squad the past two seasons.

There were Chelsea supporters – Morgan, you may be able to speak of this. There were Chelsea supporters who I thought were loyalists to Jose, Jose can do nothing wrong, who are now beginning to turn on him in the last couple of weeks from my interactions with them. It’s because of the Mata thing, more than all the other things I outlined. They don’t care about the other stuff I’m saying but it is about his handling of Mata. I’m not sure Jose is going to have the supporters with him if this continues, this kind of soap opera on the press and Chelsea are not running away with the league title, which I don’t think they will.

Speaker 3: I agree, It does seem like there’s been a lot of [inaudible 00:59:06], I guess you could call it, among the ranks of the Chelsea supporters as far as Mourinho goes because we have seen in the past that people were just this guy’s a god when it comes to Chelsea  and I think now you’re seeing a lot of people questioning why he’s doing this. Again, it’s not like Juan Mata was the guy that like, “Yes, he played really well. We thought he was really good.” This guy was the player of the season the last two years. He was the guy that the fans and everybody voted as the best player that Chelsea had. Again, I agree the handling has not been very good but he’s given his reasons for it.

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  1. Jake

    September 25, 2013 at 8:30 am

    Long time listener, first time poster. Just wanted to point out Kris’ silence during the Ramsey/Piers Morgan discussion. I actually am a big fan of his analysis, but towards the end of last season, I remember a number of his articles on Soccernet advocating for Ramsey’s dropping/sale.

  2. Kartik Krishnaiyer

    September 24, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Good point Adam Heap.

  3. Adam Heap

    September 24, 2013 at 7:01 am

    I love listening to this podcast, but sometimes I wish you guys would all show a little support for the sides you follow! Kartik, you could hardly have sounded less enthusiastic about how well your club played in the derby (in spite of their history in derby matches, I know) – we all know which teams the presenters are backing, show some love for them every now and again – we know you need to be unbiased but supporters can’t help but love our clubs!

    • Jake

      September 25, 2013 at 8:27 am

      I dont think Morgan holds anything back…

      • Morgan Green

        September 25, 2013 at 4:55 pm


  4. Kartik Krishnaiyer

    September 23, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    I thought I mentioned Marshall but perhaps not. In fact I don’t know if I was called upon during this game, but it was late and we were trying to get the pod done. Lloris could have been sent off for that handball, as we saw a similar call last week. I don’t think Cardiff played with ten men behind the ball the entire game having now watched the full 90. Cardiff at times in the second half played a higher line and kept the ball.

    If you feel we don’t cover Spurs closely enough or are too biased towards Arsenal (an accusation you and some other Spurs fans have made towards me which conveniently ignores that Arsenal has finished ahead of Spurs for 17 consecutive seasons and with that they have earned some deference when compared to Spurs)we’d love to have you come on the podcast. Your points are well taken on this game. But understand with PSG-Monaco the biggest game of the weekend was on at 2:55 as was Milan-Napoli and having some other items to complete I didn’t get a chance to watch the game as closely as I would like before the pod. I have now watched it entirely. I also think this win indicates Spurs are a likely top 3 team as they have fared better than Everton and Man City (both outside the top 3 right now in my estimation) in South Wales. In fact this result gives Spurs more points in South Wales than City has in three trips to the area the last 3 seasons so that counts for something.

    Again, apologies. We try our best but sometimes it’s not good enough I suppose. If you want to help us with prep or even coming on in the future to discuss Spurs that’d be great!

    • Balboa77

      September 23, 2013 at 8:34 pm

      Dust on the podcast is a must listen for me. I am convinced “Dust” is a combination of people yelling at a computer screen while one person types. MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

      • Dust

        September 23, 2013 at 9:30 pm


    • Dust

      September 23, 2013 at 9:29 pm

      Thanks both of you for responding…

      I don’t think you are anti spurs, it’s a good example of a game that didn’t have the review it should’ve…

      I check back in every now and again, to see what changes (if any) there are to the coverage, esp with the changes on the site.

      Anyways…Thank you for asking, if time allows I’d be interested.

      • jtm371

        September 23, 2013 at 9:37 pm

        do it it would be EPIC!

        • dust

          September 24, 2013 at 12:57 pm

          Im happy to do it, Chris reached out for the king interview. If at some point they want it to happen i’m sure they will reach out, they have a million and one things going on.

      • COYS_USA1

        September 24, 2013 at 12:17 pm

        If Dust cant do it I would love to be on the pod

        • Balboa77

          September 24, 2013 at 8:58 pm

          No one invited you.

  5. Dust

    September 23, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    It sounded like no one watched the Spurs game, here are some talking points from the game oh…and it was Naughton was at left back, not Vertonghen.

    Cardiff’s keeper played out of his skin, he was peppered with shots and some how kept them out. It was complete domination by spurs…

    Cardiff no17 holding Lloris arm as the corner came in while another player used Dawson as human ladder for the disallowed goal they had.

    Lloris handled the ball on the edge (started on the line but handled it over the line too) of the 18m, after another dodgey back pass from Naughton.

    The football Spurs played was very very good, Cardiff had to play with 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes.

    Lamela made the difference when he came on, as a very tired Cardiff couldn’t cope with his trickery and runs between them, yes Holtby played his part and did well.

    I can’t believe its co-incidence that when I choose to listen its only then that the summary of non major games are so poor.

    Cardiff’s keeper absolutely deserved a mention after putting on a performance similar to YL for WHIFC Paulinho & Dembele were sublime.

    Conceding 1 goal in 8 games (5 in BPL) for Spurs and scoring 16 best defensive record in BPL. And yes that’s quite an achievement with Dawson at the back.

    Contributors to the pod in the u.s have access to the games On Demand within an hour or so of them finishing, maybe I’m crazy, but perhaps someone from WST on the pod should watch, and then report.

    Just a thought.

    • Christopher Harris

      September 23, 2013 at 4:58 pm

      To be fair, the Tottenham match was being played at the same time as the biggest match of the weekend. Damn the Europa League!

      I’m sure a lot of people were watching the Arsenal-Stoke match instead of the Palace-Swansea one, too 😉

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