About a year ago on this site, I wrote an article about why I would not be watching the MLS All Stars face off against Manchester United at Red Bull Arena. In essence, I felt that another meaningless friendly, but this time with a collection of MLS talent instead of just one team, didn’t peak my interest:
For the record, I tend not to watch all star games of sports I enjoy. No matter what the schtick (players pick teams, domestic v. foreign, winner gets homefield), if the game doesn’t count for something meaningful then I tend to enjoy it less. And that I think is the root cause of my lack of interest in tonight’s game.
Except for a major injury, no matter what happens on the pitch tonight it won’t matter. No trophies will be awarded, no points towards a final goal will be given, and there is nothing for MLS to gain from this match. If anything, there’s more to lose: witness the press surrounding last year’s game. I may be in the minority, but when there is so little at stake in a game I have little impetus to watch it on television.
In the past I have stated that I enjoy international friendlies; does this make me a hypocrite? Not at all, because I think the key difference is that I am watching this game on television. I can watch Manchester United on ESPN2 plenty of times in the coming months, in games that matter. If I were at Red Bull Arena and feeling the atmosphere of the game, I would be more excited and interested. But I am relegated to my couch, so I lose the atmosphere of the game and what appeals to me most about friendlies: seeing a team I can’t normally see play in-person.
A year later, it’s another Premier League team visiting our shores to face our collection of the best of the best (or, the best available). While Chelsea has a bit more prestige, having just won the UEFA Champions League, the scenario is basically the same. The only two differences that will maybe convince me to watch tonight are the arena and the head coach. Philadelphia’s soccer stadium has one of the best views in the league, and I enjoy watching games in HD played there simply because the view is unparalleled. The second reason is Ben Olsen. The DC united head coach is an up-and-coming manager with an oversized personality. How he manages his roster of all stars and enjoys the moment could be fun to see.
Does all this mean I will be tuning in tonight? Probably not. Because at the end of the day, the game doesn’t mean anything. An MLS win will be portrayed as them beating a traveling team tuning up for the season, while another loss to an EPL side will further cast doubt on MLS as product (rightly or wrongly). I’ll take a pass on this one and wait for a match that actually determines something in the standings.
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There are two reasons why I will watch. 1. I enjoy the EPL and I
know Chelsea will be going all-out to play well because the season
starts pretty soon and they have a bunch of new players who need to
get used to the system. 2. This is the only time we have a chance
to see the best MLS players playing together. I’m especially
excited to see DeRo and Beckham play together in the midfield. I
know it’s just an exhibition, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be a
good game. I’ll always be a fan of the sport first, leagues and
teams second (and third).
I agree Alex, no matter how much I hate MLS’s structure I am a fan
of the sport first. I do agree that MLS has nothing to gain from
this event, especially if they lose by a wide margin.
Yeah, MLS has nothing to gain from broadcasting a game on
ESPN….well besides money and publicity, but besides that. You
can’t seriously be that lost in the forest you can’t see that tree
?
There are two reasons why I will watch. 1. I enjoy the EPL and I
know Chelsea will be going all-out to play well because the season
starts pretty soon and they have a bunch of new players who need to
get used to the system. 2. This is the only time we have a chance
to see the best MLS players playing together. I’m especially
excited to see DeRo and Beckham play together in the midfield. I
know it’s just an exhibition, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be a
good game. I’ll always be a fan of the sport first, leagues and
teams second (and third).
I agree Alex, no matter how much I hate MLS’s structure I am a fan
of the sport first. I do agree that MLS has nothing to gain from
this event, especially if they lose by a wide margin.
Yeah, MLS has nothing to gain from broadcasting a game on
ESPN….well besides money and publicity, but besides that. You
can’t seriously be that lost in the forest you can’t see that tree
?
I watch it if I’m around but I don’t change my schedule for it
(unlike a big EPL, Champion’s League, Rapids game, or the MLS
final). When it was in Colorado I attended it and it was a lot of
fun. It is often a good game but I agree that there is nothing at
stake. I read nothing into the result, but I agree with Alex that
it is fun to see the unique MLS combinations on the same team. I’d
like to see them get a non-EPL team next year.
Mexico All-Stars versus MLS All-Stars !!! They need to make this
happen. It would be epic. Year after year of something to look
forward to. It could be the second mid summer classic.
Dumb
“Mexico All-Stars versus MLS All-Stars !”………….there is a
little problem with that. They don’t do monkey business All Stars
games in Mexico, we do. ….they kick our behinds on CCL, where it
matters
There is no reason that they can’t either.
The Mexicans have been wanting to have an All-star game for years.
Now with Liga MX set up it’ll happen sooner than later.
I watch it if I’m around but I don’t change my schedule for it
(unlike a big EPL, Champion’s League, Rapids game, or the MLS
final). When it was in Colorado I attended it and it was a lot of
fun. It is often a good game but I agree that there is nothing at
stake. I read nothing into the result, but I agree with Alex that
it is fun to see the unique MLS combinations on the same team. I’d
like to see them get a non-EPL team next year.
Mexico All-Stars versus MLS All-Stars !!! They need to make this
happen. It would be epic. Year after year of something to look
forward to. It could be the second mid summer classic.
Dumb
“Mexico All-Stars versus MLS All-Stars !”………….there is a
little problem with that. They don’t do monkey business All Stars
games in Mexico, we do. ….they kick our behinds on CCL, where it
matters
There is no reason that they can’t either.
The Mexicans have been wanting to have an All-star game for years.
Now with Liga MX set up it’ll happen sooner than later.
I for sure will be watching this game, major props to MLS and ESPN
for hyping up the game. I know the game has no meaning as far as
points, trophies, and league standings, but that’s not a reason you
should not watch. A lot of people who are not MLS fans will be
watching this game, a lot of football fans around the world will be
tuning in cause its Chelsea playing, a lot of non-soccer fans here
in America will be watching since it’s an All-Star game. So it’s
very important for the MLS to put a big show, and if you’re a fan
of MLS you should be supporting this. Besides, compared to other
All-Star games this by far is the best. In the NFL the pro bowl
well nobody watches that, In Basketball East vest West is the same
old boring stuff year after and we know the players don’t care, In
baseball it’s ridiculous the system they have, for one game it
decides home filed advantage when a team plays 162 games a year,
talk about being unfair!. And in hockey well nobody watches that
either.
I for sure will be watching this game, major props to MLS and ESPN
for hyping up the game. I know the game has no meaning as far as
points, trophies, and league standings, but that’s not a reason you
should not watch. A lot of people who are not MLS fans will be
watching this game, a lot of football fans around the world will be
tuning in cause its Chelsea playing, a lot of non-soccer fans here
in America will be watching since it’s an All-Star game. So it’s
very important for the MLS to put a big show, and if you’re a fan
of MLS you should be supporting this. Besides, compared to other
All-Star games this by far is the best. In the NFL the pro bowl
well nobody watches that, In Basketball East vest West is the same
old boring stuff year after and we know the players don’t care, In
baseball it’s ridiculous the system they have, for one game it
decides home filed advantage when a team plays 162 games a year,
talk about being unfair!. And in hockey well nobody watches that
either.
” An MLS win will be portrayed as them beating a traveling team
tuning up for the season, while another loss to an EPL side will
further cast doubt on MLS as product (rightly or wrongly).” Robert,
You need to quit caring what others think, seriously. This isn’t
1982. MLS is a very good league. If others don’t care to admit it,
or are too stupid to know it who cares ? Have you seen the posts on
this site, you really think you are going to convince that level of
stupidity ?………………………………………………In
1982, we all cared what others thought, and for good reason, one
more year and the Cosmos had a one team league going. That isn’t
the case now.
If MLS is a good league, they need to start winning in the CCL. Not
getting annihilated by Mexican teams in the knockout round every
year.
Definitely, they need to work on that, but we are far from the only
league in the world that has Mexican teams that can beat them. MLS
is a good league, and can and will get better.
” An MLS win will be portrayed as them beating a traveling team
tuning up for the season, while another loss to an EPL side will
further cast doubt on MLS as product (rightly or wrongly).” Robert,
You need to quit caring what others think, seriously. This isn’t
1982. MLS is a very good league. If others don’t care to admit it,
or are too stupid to know it who cares ? Have you seen the posts on
this site, you really think you are going to convince that level of
stupidity ?………………………………………………In
1982, we all cared what others thought, and for good reason, one
more year and the Cosmos had a one team league going. That isn’t
the case now.
If MLS is a good league, they need to start winning in the CCL. Not
getting annihilated by Mexican teams in the knockout round every
year.
Definitely, they need to work on that, but we are far from the only
league in the world that has Mexican teams that can beat them. MLS
is a good league, and can and will get better.
“one more year and the Cosmos had a one team league going. That
isn’t the case now.”…………….that is exactly the case now.
If you understand how “single entity” works. MLS is just one
private club, making us believe they are different teams. It is a
scam, whether you like it or not……………… Do you know what
they say on court in order not to be charge with antitrust
law?…….”antitrust law should not apply to us, we are a single
entity, we DO NOT compete against each other”…….so if they DO
NOT compete against each other, then they are just a big club
right?
No its not one single club, the single entity means that each team
isnt its own separate business, the league sells franchises to
cities or owners who can then negotiate with players, in your rule
youre saying the nba is one big team and so is the mlb and nfl and
nhl?
so if..”each team isnt its own separate business” does it matters
if they have certain freedoms? Can teams decide which kit maker
they were? What does “single” means to you?
who are the players contracted to? the franchise or the entity?
“one more year and the Cosmos had a one team league going. That
isn’t the case now.”…………….that is exactly the case now.
If you understand how “single entity” works. MLS is just one
private club, making us believe they are different teams. It is a
scam, whether you like it or not……………… Do you know what
they say on court in order not to be charge with antitrust
law?…….”antitrust law should not apply to us, we are a single
entity, we DO NOT compete against each other”…….so if they DO
NOT compete against each other, then they are just a big club
right?
No its not one single club, the single entity means that each team
isnt its own separate business, the league sells franchises to
cities or owners who can then negotiate with players, in your rule
youre saying the nba is one big team and so is the mlb and nfl and
nhl?
so if..”each team isnt its own separate business” does it matters
if they have certain freedoms? Can teams decide which kit maker
they were? What does “single” means to you?
who are the players contracted to? the franchise or the entity?
Sam let me give you a run down of the scam mls calls single entity
. Mls is listed as major league soccer LLC a private corporation in
where investors (or owners to make the fan boys feel better about
it) buy into the corporation. They are handed a stake in the
company along with a share of the profits gained by the franchises
and SUM. Everything is centrally negotiated by the league ergo
sponsoring (Adidas eg) friendlies (clubs have the option to decline
scheduling but receives all ticket sales if they do) and player
contracts . A player does not sign with say Sounders directly they
sign with mls, agree to the terms then enter into a allocation pot
where teams on the list can sign them or not. Essentially the
league decides where teams go to keep cost down and further dilute
quality with parity. This is also why you see trades happen so very
often because the contract is owned by the league players rights
are easily transfersd from one franchise to another. Which is
highly unfair to players because they have no say in the matter.
Moving on the league decides on salary caps, competition rules,
votes on who is owner or not, profit shares. Every aspect of the
league is centrally runned by the league. The only autonomy a
franchise has is basically staff coaching staff local sponsorships
local TV deals and local promotions, that’s it. Everything else is
either handled by the league on behalf of the club or
closely.monitored and approved by the league. So all in all mls is
technically one big giant club that violates FIFA laws and FIFA
players rights just to keep a healthy profit margin. And don’t pull
out the mls is still in the red the latest financial numbers that
have been leaked on the Web were from 2008. Why do you think
foreign players refer to the mls and THE mls instead of a specific
club when asked about a rumor signing? It’s because they are not
signing to a club they are signing to the league. As the league
expands and allows more wiggle room for owners to manage their club
the single.entity immunity will fail and mls will enter a serious
lawsuit that could potentially fold mls if they don’t give up it’s
beloved training wheels.
I meant to say mls clubs get all ticket sales if they do schedule
friendlies
single entity is the reason I don’t watch MLS. I just can’t support
a league that is structured in a way that i vehemently oppose. It’s
like being a capitalist and opposing communism.
is it too hard to understand that single = 1
is it too hard to understand that single = 1
As I said earlier Robert H “Have you seen the posts on this site,
you really think you are going to convince that level of stupidity
?”…………Are you convinced yet, or to do you need MLS bashing
Roger to go on….he will….seriously he will.
As I said earlier Robert H “Have you seen the posts on this site,
you really think you are going to convince that level of stupidity
?”…………Are you convinced yet, or to do you need MLS bashing
Roger to go on….he will….seriously he will.
You are right Charles…..I will….I will because it deserves to
be bashed….I will because on the “land of freedom”, fans cannot
organize, make their own clubs and be linked to the international
soccer clubs structure, like fans are allowed to do on almost every
where on earth, even though our game is called “the game of the
people”……….I will because our “soccer journalism” disrespects
such profession, bombarding us with irrelevant garbage, while the
USSF is presided by the intellectual creator of “single entity” and
gives it exclusive division 1 status, in a clear case of
conflicting interest; but our “journalists DO NOT SAY A WORD ABOUT
IT” ………..I will because this is a global game that should be
shared by all, not a private property of an investors group
It is good to know that everyone is crazy except you………um you
can make your own club and many did, it was called A-League, then
USL, now NASL and USL. It was FIRST division. IF, big IF anyone
attends the games it will be first division
again……………………………………….Seriously, do
you even think before you post. Just once think. Can’t make your
own club….wow…….WOW.
@Charles. you call me crazy.Last time I checked the definition of
insanity, it was to do the same things and to expect different
results. right?….well: I say that if we implement promotion and
relegation it will work here just as well as it does all around the
world…….. You, on the other hand say that “it will not work in
america!” ( even though it works everywhere else)……..you tell
me who better fits the definition of insanity?
You are right Charles…..I will….I will because it deserves to
be bashed….I will because on the “land of freedom”, fans cannot
organize, make their own clubs and be linked to the international
soccer clubs structure, like fans are allowed to do on almost every
where on earth, even though our game is called “the game of the
people”……….I will because our “soccer journalism” disrespects
such profession, bombarding us with irrelevant garbage, while the
USSF is presided by the intellectual creator of “single entity” and
gives it exclusive division 1 status, in a clear case of
conflicting interest; but our “journalists DO NOT SAY A WORD ABOUT
IT” ………..I will because this is a global game that should be
shared by all, not a private property of an investors group
It is good to know that everyone is crazy except you………um you
can make your own club and many did, it was called A-League, then
USL, now NASL and USL. It was FIRST division. IF, big IF anyone
attends the games it will be first division
again……………………………………….Seriously, do
you even think before you post. Just once think. Can’t make your
own club….wow…….WOW.
@Charles. you call me crazy.Last time I checked the definition of
insanity, it was to do the same things and to expect different
results. right?….well: I say that if we implement promotion and
relegation it will work here just as well as it does all around the
world…….. You, on the other hand say that “it will not work in
america!” ( even though it works everywhere else)……..you tell
me who better fits the definition of insanity?
You make two huge assumptions. One that soccer wouldn’t be more
successful as a larger parity league. That is just stupid. Two,
that the US would do better in pro/rel. There is no reason to
believe that could even be accomplished here. How many teams are
ready to be in first division soccer here ? Answer: Zero, All of
them that are able to have moved up. That will continue to be true
for many more years to come. That is why I hope MLS doesn’t set the
bar too high and limit the number of teams that can play in first
division…..I think 40 would be a perfect number. You of course
will contradict yourself and hope that MLS stops at 20 teams.
Koo-ko, koo-ko.
@Robert Hay….a year ago you made an article about the All Stars
Game, and now you are making a follow up……….some time ago you
made an article in which pool showed 51% for promotion relegation
and single table, and less than 1% for 10 teams play
offs…………….Irrelevant MLS All Stars Game deserves to talk
about; fans giving a clear indication they want to go on a
different direction…..NO COMMENTS!
Roger –
In politics, we usually don’t call 51% a “clear indication” especially in a non-scientific poll, but that’s neither here nor there. I’ve mentioned this before in unrelated comments on my posts – promotion/relegation is certainly a worthy topic to discuss and we have numerous times on this site. I myself have posted on it in the past. However, if that’s all we talked about, our name “MLS Talk” would be rather misleading. There are a number of topics that are always ready to be discussed in the North American soccer world, and focusing on one or two is a disservice to our readers. I hope you weigh in on our next post discussing promotion/relation, which I am sure will come up in the near future.
RH
@Robert Hay….a year ago you made an article about the All Stars
Game, and now you are making a follow up……….some time ago you
made an article in which pool showed 51% for promotion relegation
and single table, and less than 1% for 10 teams play
offs…………….Irrelevant MLS All Stars Game deserves to talk
about; fans giving a clear indication they want to go on a
different direction…..NO COMMENTS!
Roger –
In politics, we usually don’t call 51% a “clear indication” especially in a non-scientific poll, but that’s neither here nor there. I’ve mentioned this before in unrelated comments on my posts – promotion/relegation is certainly a worthy topic to discuss and we have numerous times on this site. I myself have posted on it in the past. However, if that’s all we talked about, our name “MLS Talk” would be rather misleading. There are a number of topics that are always ready to be discussed in the North American soccer world, and focusing on one or two is a disservice to our readers. I hope you weigh in on our next post discussing promotion/relation, which I am sure will come up in the near future.
RH
@Rober Hay……..what made that pool a “clear indication” that
fans may want to go on a different direction than our our “leaders”
, was not only the 51% in favor of pro/rel and single table, but
the contrast between that 51% and the LESS THAN 1% that 10 teams
lay-offs got.
RH.. thanks for your answer…..we obviously have different
positions. I think that 51% on a pool in which the 2 issues (
pro/rel and single table ) where mixed with a dozen others issues,
is a clear indication that there is a significant portion of fans
that would like to go on a different direction that the league
wants. As a journalist, since you were the author of the article,
didn’t you feel any kind of curiosity for following that lead.
Specially considering that we, the fans were NEVER asked about how
we felt about single entity…….if 51% does not merit to dig
deeper, what does?…65%?………80%?……….if the issue of
promotion and relegation would have been isolated from the others,
will the percentage go up?…..and ……if we found out as a
result of digging deeper that more than halve the us soccer fans
are in favor of promotion and relegation, wouldn’t that be worth
debating?…….how could the status-quo justify to keep putting
this issue down the carpet after that?………if yours was not a
scientific pool, shouldn’t its results indicate that it is about
time we do a scientific one?……………the reason that I keep
pushing this issue is because I think it is the most important
issue regarding US club soccer, it is a debate that we should have
had before implementing single entity rather that after. To
implement pro/rel or not, affects thousands of fans, cities and
players, therefore we should have been taken in consideration at
some point…………… If we want US club soccer to have the
legitimacy it deserves, the issue of promotion and relegation can
not keep being postponed indefinitely………the fans are an
essential part of the game, there is no business, no passion, no tv
ratings, there is no game without the fans. If we are to get the
respect we deserve, 51% of us pointing on a completely different
direction that the status-quo is taking us to( even though I
understand it was not a scientific pool ) should had been more than
enough to deserve attention.
I’m sure if the fans that actually watch and support MLS make a big
deal out of it, it will be a big issue. Don’t forget that there are
about 50 percent that didn’t care about either single-entity or
pro/rel enough to make it their top priority. I am willing to bet
that at around half of the people that comment on this site will
NEVER care about MLS (pro/rel or no pro/rel), so why cater to the
non-fans. That would be like catering to people on any themed
website that troll. It doesn’t make any sense. But yes, I think
that if ACTUAL FANS care enough about either of those issues, then
they should be brought up. I actually agree that they are valid
discussion points in the right context by actual fans. I think that
it is also fair to be critical of the failings of certain aspects
of pro/rel or any other topic. That is not to say that pro/rel
itself is a failure, but there are some failings in the way that it
is implemented. It is totally fair to not want to repeat those
mistakes.
RH.. thanks for your answer…..we obviously have different
positions. I think that 51% on a pool in which the 2 issues (
pro/rel and single table ) where mixed with a dozen others issues,
is a clear indication that there is a significant portion of fans
that would like to go on a different direction that the league
wants. As a journalist, since you were the author of the article,
didn’t you feel any kind of curiosity for following that lead.
Specially considering that we, the fans were NEVER asked about how
we felt about single entity…….if 51% does not merit to dig
deeper, what does?…65%?………80%?……….if the issue of
promotion and relegation would have been isolated from the others,
will the percentage go up?…..and ……if we found out as a
result of digging deeper that more than halve the us soccer fans
are in favor of promotion and relegation, wouldn’t that be worth
debating?…….how could the status-quo justify to keep putting
this issue down the carpet after that?………if yours was not a
scientific pool, shouldn’t its results indicate that it is about
time we do a scientific one?……………the reason that I keep
pushing this issue is because I think it is the most important
issue regarding US club soccer, it is a debate that we should have
had before implementing single entity rather that after. To
implement pro/rel or not, affects thousands of fans, cities and
players, therefore we should have been taken in consideration at
some point…………… If we want US club soccer to have the
legitimacy it deserves, the issue of promotion and relegation can
not keep being postponed indefinitely………the fans are an
essential part of the game, there is no business, no passion, no tv
ratings, there is no game without the fans. If we are to get the
respect we deserve, 51% of us pointing on a completely different
direction that the status-quo is taking us to( even though I
understand it was not a scientific pool ) should had been more than
enough to deserve attention.
I’m sure if the fans that actually watch and support MLS make a big
deal out of it, it will be a big issue. Don’t forget that there are
about 50 percent that didn’t care about either single-entity or
pro/rel enough to make it their top priority. I am willing to bet
that at around half of the people that comment on this site will
NEVER care about MLS (pro/rel or no pro/rel), so why cater to the
non-fans. That would be like catering to people on any themed
website that troll. It doesn’t make any sense. But yes, I think
that if ACTUAL FANS care enough about either of those issues, then
they should be brought up. I actually agree that they are valid
discussion points in the right context by actual fans. I think that
it is also fair to be critical of the failings of certain aspects
of pro/rel or any other topic. That is not to say that pro/rel
itself is a failure, but there are some failings in the way that it
is implemented. It is totally fair to not want to repeat those
mistakes.
I was happy to watch just to see Chelsea lose. I hate Chelsea more
than any other club on planet Earth.
I was happy to watch just to see Chelsea lose. I hate Chelsea more
than any other club on planet Earth.
You didn’t want to see John Terry in HD? tsk…
You didn’t want to see John Terry in HD? tsk…
i’m actually avoiding MLS altogether until the following things are
done: – dismantling of ridiculous single entity structure (no other
sport league on the planet is structured like this) – free agency –
1 league table (get rid of conferences. they are mickey mouse)
Keep us posted on your status Bob. Use this site please, so we know
where to find out where you stand. You should get a Twitter account
too maybe so people can follow minute by minute.
“i’m actually avoiding MLS altogether” Posting on MLS Talk is a
great way of doing this. So, if MLS did away with these 3 things
(even though conferences are not Mickey Mouse, they are very
practical), you would then follow MLS?
Alan, Yes i would. Because it would mean that MLS was deciding to
be a part of the global game instead of a league closed off from
the world that wants to do it their own way. No other league on the
planet is structured like the MLS . ON THE FRICKIN PLANET.
Fair enough, and I respect that. I noticed that you didn’t mention
pro/rel, fall/spring calendar, and other things that are common in
other leagues. So you are ok with supporting MLS with just these
three changes? Again, I disagree, but I do respect that.
most leagues are on fall/spring calendar but many or not. There are
pros and cons to it. I would say the pros outweigh the cons. As far
as pro/rel, it would take for NASL to build up into a stable D2
first. If we had a stable D2 and MLS/USSF etc were still resisting
pro/rel then that would be a reason to boycott MLS. The league is
setup in totally the wrong way. Like 95% of the soccer leagues
around the globe have a regular season, Cups, CL qualifying. But
with MLS the regular season is just for playoff seeding and
positioning. It makes the league incredibly boring. It’s also not
how you crown a league champion. League champions do it all year
and are the team that have accumulated the most points. But its
seems like MLS is forced into having a playoff because they want
some excitement. It’s a catch-22. They want excitement so they
think they need a playoff, yet the existence of a playoff takes all
the excitement away form the regular season. It might be worth it
if they hit paydirt with the playoffs but the playoffs aren’t
exciting either. No one watches them except for the die hard MLS
homer. This is different from other American sports where the
casual fan will tune into playoffs. Also, I don’t really by the
excuse that MLS has to be structured this way because its an
American league. If you look at Japan, they have baseball and
baseball playoffs. But with their soccer league they have a more
european model. The same goes with China. China’s soccer league is
the same age as MLS, yet they already have a 3 tiered pro/rel
system. They have single table, league champ etc. Anyways…i went
on a bit of a rant. What would it take for me to watch MLS? Well I
don’t want it now out of principle because of how much i am against
this single entity garbage. I would watch it even if there wasn’t
pro/rel and even if there was a playoff. However, i would really
only be watching it to keep tabs on USMNT players. It would still
be the same boring regular season and silly playoff.
To answer Alan’s question, no 3 changes are not enough. Bob lied
when he said yes the first time. There are more changes, just let
him go on a little further. Go ahead Bob………so Bob you must
agree with everything else about MLS and the way they run the
league, is this true Bob ? Did you set up your twitter account yet
so we can keep posted ?
pro/rel is just a toll to allow all clubs to be linked to the huge
international soccer club structure that our game has
created…….our lower divisions should be linked to our 1st, just
like MLS is linked to the CCL, just like CCL is linked to the Fifa
Clubs World Cup……..what pro/rel will do for us is to integrate
us to the global spirit of the game. That is the reason why it is
the right path to follow, not because they do it anywhere
else………..Just like Bob, I will never support single entity,
because I think that OUR GAME IS ABOUT A LOT MORE THAN KICKING A
BALL AROUND
I am glad you saw where I was going with this. The excuse for not
supporting MLS is that they need to change this or that. Then the
list grows. Why should MLS change? Those wanting it to change are
not supporters and never will be. I am all for protesting things
that you don’t like about the league such as pro/rel or whatever,
but if you are not a fan and never will be, there is no point to
protesting and there is no point to MLS caring.
i already said i would watch MLS if they changed those 3 things.
That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want more changes. MLS is never going
to get the TV audience because the traditional soccer fan has
rejected what they are doing. This is just a fact.
The average EPL fan will always reject what they are doing.
Traditional fans can still enjoy the game even if they have gripes
with MLS. I have gripes with EPL but if I lived in England you can
bet I would still be supporting a team that is close to me.
I’m sorry but there’s just no reason for MLS to do it “the American
way.” You don’t see Japan doing it the Japan way or China doing it
the Chinese way. These newer leagues are doing it the traditional
way because they realize that soccer is the global game. You’d
maybe have an argument if “the American way” was successful. But
it’s not. The TV ratings for MLS are shockingly low. Soccer fans in
the USA are not watching MLS. You can’t say this about other
countries. When are you MLS snobs going to get it? I’ll answer that
: Never.
Just like when Bob said there were 3 things he would change and he
meant, 10. By zero, Bob means there is a reason, but he just
doesn’t like it and he will cry like a baby till someone changes
it…………………………Guys like me, who are the MLS fan
base, like the way the league is set up. Playoffs, love em, make
the larger please. Parity, anything else is just boring to watch,
see the EPL seasons 1-17 for great examples, or LaLiga for a better
example. Let me guess RM or Barca. Salary cap, Bob isn’t wise
enough to remember 1983, when American soccer was set up amost like
he wanted ( or he doesn’t care about American soccer….I say both
)……………I am going to the game tomorrow, if you are going I
give you permission to cry like a baby, if not, I will rip on you
for it.
MLS snob? I watch a lot more soccer than MLS. There are things that
I like about MLS, and things that I don’t. I watch because of the
players, the teams, however they are made up, they still pour their
heart into it. There is still excitement to be had, and if you ever
want to change MLS, then you should start voicing your opinion AND
supporting what is happening on the pitch. Also, there are other
leagues that do things differently. We are not the only league with
playoffs for example. I follow and watch lots of soccer, so calling
me an MLS snob is not going to work.
and why are the ratings low? Because there are at least 4 other
sports in the country at the moment that are more popular than the
MLS not to mention you are noticing that even though the ratings
may be low, they are slowly going up. For MLS to survive, it faces
competition to fight for a piece of the pie dominated by the NFL,
NBA and MLB which outside of the weather conditions is probably
another reason why the MLS can’t just switch to a FIFA schedule
like the rest of the world is on. But who says that these things
can’t change? The MLS has made it this far and made some key
changes from when it was first conceived and who is to say that
there won’t be more? And by the way, what are you basing your TV
ratings on? I just wrote a blog piece a few weeks ago saying that
viewership is up as well as game attendance. Also, just less than 2
weeks ago, an article came out backing up that claim. PEOPLE ARE
WATCHING
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/rbny-fan-2012-mls-midseason-tv-ratings-impressive-200400381–mls.html
I love it when guys like Bob speak up. Very funny. Probably not
polite to laugh at someone that has the logic of a 3 year old, but
it is funny. Most popular sport in the world. They chose soccer
over cricket, so the league structure must be golden and the only
way to go.
ratings are up from 70k to 150k Lol. No one is watching this Mickey
Mouse league. American soccer fans do not like how Americanized MLS
is. WE WILL NEVER WATCH. Your silly league will forever be a joke.
“i already said i would watch MLS if they changed those 3 things.”
-Bob………………………….”WE WILL NEVER WATCH”
-Bob…………………….There is a joke on this page. He is
wasting our time.
Glad to see you supporting. It is definitely an uphill battle, but
we will get there.
Uphill battle was 1979 or 1989. I was watching FC Seattle with 100
of the people that knew the team existed. This is a coaster ride
downhill to the promised land…….Zero Americans worth watching,
versus countless, badly run league versus best league in soccer, no
one even knowing what soccer was except it was a foreigners sport,
versus every kid growing up playing. I could go on and on, but I
don’t want to take away from a joke post about how MLS is ruining
soccer in this country. Man those posts are funny. Come on Roger,
tell us about it !!!
Oh trust me, I know how far soccer has come, but we can still do
better, and will.
Bob may just be the tip of the iceberg. Back in Miami I played on
several local leagues. After every training we talked football,
nobody cared for MLS…….. I am on Baltimore now, I have made
some football friends here. Same situation, we talk world cup,
champions, libertadores, even brasileirao, but I try to start an
MLS debate and I am by myself…..we have no idea how many fans
have been turn off by “single entity”, but I guarantee you is a
HUGE number…….Bob, Robert and me are just a few that post on a
site, but you can be sure we are not along……..I never forget a
response I got on Miami on one of my attempts to talk MLS on a
local league and somebody answer: “MLS,….. man that’s some gringo
crap”………..that answer very much describes how a lot of fans
feel about “single entity”
there’s a neuroscientist named George Lakoff. He’s done a lot of
interesting work on why people believe certain things. Most of his
work has to do with politics. Basically, the way our brains work is
that we see everything through narratives. This applies to sports
as well. There is a reason the majority of soccer fans in the USA
do not watch MLS. It goes against how they have been socialized
into the sport. And they have been socialized into the sport
through narratives. Soccer is becoming popular in the USA because
of globalization. It is popular as an internaitonal sport and it is
popular because of the Euro leagues, the EPL in particular. So, the
American soccer fan is being socialized into the sport through what
they see in Europe and internationally. And what we get in Europe
is an open system: single table with league champion, cup matches,
and promotion/relegation. The American soccer fan sees the sport
through this narrative. If they didn’t then the EPL wouldn’t be so
popular in the US. MLS is structured like other American sports not
like other soccer leagues. The MLS regular season does not decide a
league winner, instead it is for deciding playoff seeding, just
like other American sports. This goes against how the American
soccer fan has been socialized into the sport and is the reason MLS
is so offensive to the traditional fan. Japan went through this.
Before they went to a pro/rel system, Japan had a non-traditional
soccer structure. It was not popular and they made a conscious
decision to go with the European model. Ever since they have their
leagues have flourished. They set a goal for 100 pro teams and now
they have 4 tiers of professional leagues in a pro/rel
system.///////// People like Charles and Alan were likely
socialized into soccer through MLS and this is why they are not
offended by MLS. Charles sees soccer as an American sport, not the
global game. He just stated that 10 teams out of 19 making the
playoffs is not enough; he wants more. It’s my opinion this fan is
the minority of soccer fans in this country.
LOL, so laughable. There are fans in MLS that also like other
leagues like me. I am glad to see you trying to trap me into a
stereotype like the other 2 have been. I am also a big Serie A fan.
I like Atletico Madrid and Arsenal as well as AS Roma and Juventus.
I am also a big San Jose Earthquakes fan and glad to see them doing
awesome this year. I also think that MLS can improve upon things,
just like EPL can regardless of ratings or anything else. Maybe the
sheep is in the mirror. If you don’t like it, that is your choice.
You are missing a good time seeing live soccer on a regular basis,
and would grow even faster and get better with more support. Look
at some of the things that MLS used to do that got changed. I bet
it was the fans that watched that changed that stuff, not the ones
that will never watch is you have said. I am open to change, and
have never stood for or against single entity. I can definitely see
why people want it changed, and I am all for that if that is what
all MLS fans want to see. I have 2 things that I never want to see,
and that is soccer in the winter and teams buying championships.
Everything else I am open to. I’m just glad that I don’t hold it
against the players on the pitch, otherwise I would be sitting at
home and never getting to see soccer on a regular basis, and the
improvements that my domestic league is showing. Is there work to
do? Of course, but things are getting better. The thing that is
slowing it down the most is you guys. If there were tons of fans
protesting on a regular basis, I guarantee you would see changes.
As it is, they know you hate MLS and always will. Why should they
care what you want? You have already said that you won’t watch.
Robert obviously never will, and I doubt Roger ever will even if we
have pro/rel (I could be wrong, but I doubt it). I have a hunch
that his name would change from Roger(pro/rel) to Roger(single
table) or something like that. Think what you want about Garber,
but he is smarter than that at least, and so am I.
Bob, great post, I totally agree……a lot of the resistance that
pro/rel faces is cultural. People like Charles is not programmed to
think what is good for US club soccer, the focus is only on MLS.
For years they have been used to: american football = NFL; baseball
= MLB and so on. They can not conceive that there could be another
way. …..the overwhelming evidence that pro/rel works and it is an
essential par of our game’s culture means nothing to them. “the
whole world got it wrong, Garber and the cartel are visionaries ”
and we ….well, we are just crazy eurosnobs
@Bob………I was brought into soccer by MLS ? That is the most
clueless thing you have ever posted. I thought that bar would never
raise, but you just put the bar at 10 feet and HURDLED it. How
insane was this comment ?……………Roger agrees with
it………………………I was most likely COACHING soccer
before you were born. Let me take a stab, you starting watching
soccer on cable in the late 1990s ? Nice……..I wonder what
George Lakoff would say about morons posting on blogs trying to get
people to quit watching a league they like ? …….and no Roger,
Eurosnob ? no just an idiot trying to convince 5 people on this
blog you know it all.
i’ve actually been watching football since the 80’s. I spent
summers in Scotland and would watch the Scottish and English
leagues. Also, what difference does it make that you coached
soccer? You clearly have an American-centric view of the sport. You
said that 10 teams out of 19 wasn’t enough playoff teams. You want
more. Someone who really understands the global game would not say
something like this.
Like I said, I was coaching soccer before you were born.
And that really is the problem with trolls like Bob, Robert, Roger
in a nutshell, they really have no idea what they are talking
about. They haven’t been around long
enough………………………………..I remember one guy
posting on this site that the dirty secret of the NASL was they
didn’t have promotion/relegation…and that is why they failed.
Obviously he wasn’t alive then, he wouldn’t be able to type and be
that stupid. And if I need to explain what I am saying to you (
Bob, Robert and Roger ), you are in that ignorant boat
too………………………….So what do they do instead of
putting forth good arguements, based on knowledge of US soccer,
they throw out lies. Like Bob saying I starting following soccer
with MLS or saying I want more playoffs teams. Both obviously
untrue. Robert ( I think ) saying the Sounders attendance and MLS
overall won’t grow. Or MLS is in bed with the NFL. I could go on
for hours there…….Give it a rest dudes. Until you can answer
one simple question, you have no cred………………….Why
would I want to limit the number of teams that can win the
championship in a given year with a pro/rel structure in a parity
league ? Be prepared for rhetoric, insults, silence, and no answer
still.
I think where Bob is confused is when you said that you wanted more
teams in the playoffs, he didn’t realize that you also wanted a
bigger league to go along with that. My point has always been this.
You care about a bigger league, I would be ok with it either way.
But, even if they implemented pro/rel tomorrow or anything else
that you disagree with, you wouldn’t stop watching. You would still
be a Sounders fan, and voice any concerns that you had as a FAN. I
think that is the real difference. In England, if they got rid of
pro/rel, you would probably have a lot of people that were pissed
off, but I doubt that they would go watch La Liga instead. They
would protest, but they would still follow their team and league,
even in protest. I think that this is what Robert, Roger, and Bob
fail to think about when they talk about REAL soccer fans. The real
fans will always support their local (in most cases) team and
domestic league through thick and thin. Its too bad that they
missed that part of being a “traditional” fan because a traditional
fan wouldn’t do what they do.
In reply to Bob’s post. That was the dumbest thing I’ve ever read
on a soccer site. Narratives, socialized etc what utter garbage.
Fans in America follow the EPL and some teams in La Liga because
the players are better. The players are better because the clubs
pay them more. When MLS pays the same the fans will watch our
league instead of anything overseas. Has nothing to do with league
structure. People like Charles and Alan are offended. They are
offended by people like you and Roger telling MLS fans on an MLS
site that Pro/Rel is some great model when they can see the matches
at the bottom and middle of all the Euro leagues and they can read
the reports of the top 5 leagues being $5 billion in debt. Everyone
knows that is not sustainable
it’s the dumbest thing you’ve heard because you’re ignorant of the
sport. Your ignorance is not my problem.
Count me in. I describe myself as a neutral bystander of mls . I
detest mls single entity it’s over saturation of parity and the
other Mickey crap it does but I watch it and I do hope it gets
better. I have lot of soccer friends American and foreign and same
thing as you we talk uefa epl la liga libertadires and whenever we
get around mls I get excited to talk about it because finally it’s
a chance to discuss mls without the bashing and they either bash
it, have no idea what’s going on in mls or occasionally ask me who
is winning shrug the answer off and continue talking about more
legitimate leagues. I wore a DC united shirt to class and a
classmate who’s white (just trying to highlight that it’s not only
foreigners who dislike mls ) looks at me and says you watch mls?
Man mls sucks so much! It’s sad but it’s the truth . According to a
FIFA research there are over 100 million soccer fans in the us. How
many pay attention to mls? None because mls rejects them with their
selective expansion franchise, it’s structure and playoffs.
Please post your research that says 1 out of 3 are soccer fans in
the US. I am sitting an office in one of the biggest soccer cities
in the US…and they laugh about soccer, couldn’t care less about
it.
So, about 1 million of the 100 million soccer fans tune into the
Champions League games? 1,6 million watched the CL final (down from
2 million from last year)? An average of 1.3 million watched the
Euro games? About 20 million would tune in to the US matches during
the world cup? Where are these hundred million at? An average of
about 300,000 see an MLS game every week? The final day of the EPL
saw about 800,000 viewers for Man City, about 500,000 for Man
United, about a whopping 77,000 for Tottenham/Fulham, 59,000 for
Arsenal/West Brom (the 3rd and 10th team in the table), 53,000 for
Chelsea/Blackburn, and Liverpool/Swansea pulled 42,000. I bet they
were all Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool/Tottenham fans. Other than MAYBE
the world cup, where are these soccer fans at? They watch the big
games that have all of the best players in the world and could care
less about pro/rel or the mid-table teams. Ask some of those
100,000,000 fans that we have that love pro/rel who was promoted
and relegated this year in EPL and I bet most won’t know nor will
they care. Ask how many are Swansea fans. They are casual fans that
claim undying support for a big club like Barcelona or Man United
or Chelsea halfway around the world, and casually tune in to other
games. Those other “fans” only care when World Cup time comes
around. Those big viewing numbers that you guys toss around sound
impressive, but nobody is buying it other than the trolls on here.
MLS is averaging over 100,000 for their NBC games that supposedly
nobody cares about and that most people don’t even care about the
teams involved, while the big club Liverpool got 42,000 on the last
day of the year? They were all tuning into Man City and Man United
games like the loyal fans that they are. Good show.