New York Cosmos Joins NASL

 New York Cosmos Joins NASL

In surprising news, the most well-known club name in US soccer history has joined the North American Soccer League (NASL).

The NASL today announced that the New York Cosmos have joined the NASL and will begin league play in the 2013 season. The NASL Board of Governors unanimously approved the Cosmos’ membership during its meetings this week in New York.

It’s been nearly 30 years since the Cosmos, an iconic global soccer brand, have played in a professional league. Yet throughout the absence from the pitch, the franchise has maintained a loyal and dedicated fan following. The team expects to announce more details about its stadium, ticket sales, soccer operations staff and players in the near future.

Over two days of meetings, that concluded today, the NASL Board of Governors also addressed a variety of league matters, including hearing presentations from a record number of potential expansion team owners and discussing possible changes to the league’s competition structure for upcoming seasons.

The Cosmos ownership group New York Cosmos LLC is an international partnership led by industry veteran Seamus O’Brien. They are committed to putting the brand back at the forefront of North American soccer. The New York Cosmos began play in 1971, spending fourteen seasons in the earlier NASL, winning five Soccer Bowl trophies and bringing some of the biggest names in world soccer history to North America. The Cosmos last won the NASL Soccer Bowl in 1982.

“We are extremely proud to welcome the New York Cosmos to the North American Soccer League,” said NASL Commissioner David Downs. “As we continue to expand the league and help grow professional soccer in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean, the Cosmos brand and their strong ownership group are a perfect fit with us. The history of the Cosmos and soccer in the New York City area are intertwined. Bringing the Cosmos into the NASL is a logical next step as we embrace the heritage of our own past and now reunite the Cosmos, Strikers, Rowdies and several markets with ties to the NASL’s early days. Most importantly, we look forward to the Cosmos enhancing the quality of our league both on and off the field.”

Seamus O’Brien, Chairman of the New York Cosmos, said, “We are delighted to return to our historic home with the NASL and bring the New York Cosmos back to the playing field. We are committed to running the franchise with the highest possible standards on and off the field, and look forward to putting together a competitive and entertaining team our fans can be proud of.”

The New York Cosmos joins the league with two other famous NASL franchises — the Fort Lauderdale Strikers and Tampa Bay Rowdies.

What does this mean about the Cosmos’s interest in becoming a MLS team? Does it hurt or help them? Share your opinions in the comments section below.

About Christopher Harris

Founder and publisher of World Soccer Talk, Christopher Harris is the managing editor of the site. He has been interviewed by The New York Times, The Guardian and several other publications. Plus he has made appearances on NPR, BBC World, CBC, BBC Five Live, talkSPORT and beIN SPORT. Harris, who has lived in Florida since 1984, has supported Swansea City since 1979. He's also an expert on soccer in South Florida, and got engaged during half-time of a MLS game. Harris launched EPL Talk in 2005, which was rebranded as World Soccer Talk in 2013. View all posts by Christopher Harris →
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98 Responses to New York Cosmos Joins NASL

  1. joe says:

    This is smart Give them Good foot in to the MLS say in 2014 They
    Have a real place to play not a real team

    • joe says:

      And Have a real team

    • Daniel Feuerstein says:

      Joe. It’s going to take more than a year for this new version of
      the Cosmos to make that jump. But from my point of view, I’m glad
      it’s not Kemsley who’s running this. The first step going in the
      right direction has been made, still alot of mud on that shield to
      get back to what it should be.

  2. Tijuana Robert says:

    THIS IS GREAT NEWS! Way to stick it to MLS

    • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

      I like it! I definitly like this!…….Now that the names NASL/
      Cosmos / Rowdies / Strikers are back together, the question is:
      Will this new NASL pull the trigger? If they go promotion/
      relegation they will be the most talked, followed, the most
      important league in US in no time………………not to mention
      that they will get support from Fifa, Fifpro and the international
      soccer family as a whole…….come on NASL!

      • Bo says:

        Hey idiot. The NASL HATES the USL. They will never go pro/rel. Most
        teams in the NASL average 3,000 fans a game. They pay their players
        nothing. They play a poorer version of MLS soccer. NASL sucks.

      • Joe says:

        HAHAHA! I can only say that is the most ridiculous thing in the
        word! Enjoy the padded walls buddy!

      • Tijuana Robert says:

        @Roger, I don’t see what is stopping them from going Pro/Rel and
        making their CLUBS independent. I’m in full support of NASL and
        this is a great move for US Soccer. NASL has some revenge to
        administer after USSF/MLS voted to oust them out of the Open Cup
        2011. NASL can give what FIFA wants and get sanctioned D1!

        • LWPA says:

          Uh, genius, USSF does the sanctioning.

        • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

          @Robert…….I agree that NASL should pull the trigger. Pro/Rel
          will give them an inmediate international promotional bust, Fifa
          will support them, US soccer fans will support
          them……………there are other benefits; if this NASL wants to
          look like the proffesional league it should be, it needs more teams
          on the west side of the country, now its regional composition (
          Only San Antonio on the west ) makes it look kind of amateurish.
          The more teams NASL have, the more professional it will look, and
          travel distances could be significantly reduced…………….the
          tradition of the NASL, the fact that Cosmos is back, the lack of
          credibility and legitimacy of MLS with its “single entity”
          abomination, the fact that there is a huge nation with thousands of
          cities without soccer clubs, it all screams out that to be the
          first US league to implement pro/rel is the logical next step for
          the NASL

          • Joe2 says:

            I’m just going to say this @roger4pro/rel…..You are a complete
            fool and I feel bad for your family. Have fun hoping NASL goes
            pro/rel and overtakes MLS, it will be a long wait.

        • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

          @Robert……..I think I know what is stopping them from going
          pro/rel, themselves………I read a couple of things from their
          commisioner, and he uses words like “products”, “business model”,
          “importance of sustainability”…..you know, the kind of language
          behind the old dirty trick of:.. “..but..remermber the old
          NASL”…….I don’t have high hopes that NASL pull the trigger. I
          keep saying that we, the fans are the key, we need to organize and
          take action, if we do they could not keep sweeping the issue down
          the carpet forever. An open letter to Fifa signed by thousand of
          fans, adds on important newspapers, something of that sort, we need
          to up the ante…………..call me a conspiracy guy all you want,
          but it all smells to me like the american sport stablishment has
          infiltrated our game and is controlling it from within………and
          I don’t blame them, they have no choice if you think about it, they
          cannot afford giving pro/rel a chance because it will change the
          american sports landscape forever

        • Lysander says:

          Well FIFA does not do sanctionaing. That is done at the national
          level. But if NASL wants to pretend it is the top league it can
          feel free to do so. It can be the top league in the east. Cascadia
          will crush it though.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            @Roger, There are already 100′s of cities with soccer clubs but
            ZERO chance of ever getting into D-1. It’s sad that US Soccer fans
            are against giving all cities a shot simply in the name of
            “STABILITY”.

  3. Bo says:

    Cosmos = The New FCNY Remember them? They won’t make 2014. If they
    even take the field in 2013

  4. Joe says:

    From the cosmos web site “The Cosmos have a celebrated history with
    the NASL and with its rebirth in recent years, our entry was the
    natural first step of our return.” They natural first step before
    MLS. Its going to happen they will be in MLS soon, the NASL is NOT
    going to over take it.

  5. Charles says:

    What the heck, they didn’t post my post ?

    • Charles says:

      Here is what I posted before Joe posted the Cosmos were leaving for
      MLS someday: I don’t like this for US Soccer. The Cosmos will be
      there for how long ? As soon as they can leave, that is how long.
      At the very least it is their desire to leave for MSL, they are
      joining the poor league because they don’t have funding and/or a
      stadium. So is it bad for 3 reasons. One, they could win way too
      much killing NASL. Two, they will get the press, fans, credibility
      and then….leave. Three, NASL could have had a team that was
      staying…………Those who like US Soccer are not for this,
      (maybe for a couple of year it will be cool)…..trolls who don’t
      care about US Soccer like it. Just realize they have never been on
      the right side of any prediction EVER.

      • Joe2 says:

        I agree with you. It just mind boggles me that people actually
        think the Cosmos are going to NASL to stick it to MLS. There is no
        solid lower soccer divisions and there is no doubt the Cosmos will
        leave for MLS one day but all that does is remove another franchise
        from NASL. NASL has no chance at competing with MLS for many
        reasons but the one main is that US will never grant them D1
        sanctioning. There is too much money invested from US soccer and
        SUM into MLS. So all you pro/rel independant people can keep hoping
        but reality is that MLS has the financial backing and NASL does not
        touch it bot even with the cosmos.

        • theakinet says:

          “There is no solid lower soccer divisions and there is no doubt the
          Cosmos will leave for MLS one day but all that does is remove
          another franchise from NASL.” Have you stopped to think that we
          don’t have a solid lower division because there isn’t a meritorious
          route to US/Canada D1 status? One *MUST* spend $50+M to get into
          MLS, and that money doesn’t go to make the club better, but to
          Chang, Kraft, AEG, the Hunts, Drew Carey, Steve Nash etc. Maybe if
          we had an independent USSF with people who understood the global
          soccer market……

          • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

            @theakinete……….totally agree with you……..it is what I
            call the reversed logic trick, it is together with the “old dirty
            trick: remember the old NSL” two of the most common anti pro/rel
            arguments…………”we cannot do pro/rel because lower div clubs
            are not stable enough, and not all have SSS”……..”when lower div
            clubs are ready we may consider pro/rel, but not now, maybe
            latter”……………..the reality is that our lower div clubs are
            on the situation they are now, because of the conditions they have
            been operating under for so long, completely isolated from the club
            soccer world……….look at San Antonio on the NASL, and the LA
            Blues on USL Pro, they are the only clubs on the west on their
            leagues. How are they going to be profitable playing on irrelevant
            leagues and traveling all the way to canada and the
            caribbean?…..if they fold, then they use it as an argument for
            “sustainability” and say “we are not ready for pro/rel, look how
            unstable they are”………pro/rel will increase the number of
            clubs on our lower divisions, giving us the chance of considerably
            reducing traveling distances, by creating regional groups. It will
            also completely change their reality by giving then a sense of
            purpose.

          • Alan says:

            “it is what I call the reversed logic trick, it is together with
            the “old dirty trick: remember the old NSL”. Seriously dude, get a
            life. Just because someone disagrees with you or has their own
            opinion doesn’t mean that they are pulling tricks.

      • theakinet says:

        “One, they could win way too much killing NASL.” I agree with
        Charles. Man U’s success has killed the EPL. Imagine how much more
        popular EPL would be if they were equal with Sunderland….ESPN
        might even broadcast a few of their games her in America………..

        • Alan says:

          EPL as a league sucks, with Man U winning 2 out of every 3
          championships. I’m not going to argue that a team that spends what
          they do makes people watch because they buy good quality soccer,
          but with teams able to buy titles, they are a joke league. It
          doesn’t matter what the numbers say. Some of us just believe that.
          If you don’t then go watch EPL.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            When are American Sport Fans going to realize not everyone is a
            winner in life!

          • Charles says:

            True. Guys that root for Tiajuana are losers for example. They will
            never win, but they don’t care…because they are losers too.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            Charles, what are you talking about? They won Apertura 2010 Title
            and then won the promotion playoff to play in LIGA MX. Sounders
            paid $30M to give up its Independence and tarp off the upper bowl.
            HAHAHHA.

          • Charles says:

            San Diego sounds like they are on the verge of a NASL team, you can
            start rooting for a team that can win second division !!!

          • The original Tom says:

            Alan- It is also possible that ManU are just really good; they have
            been incredible to watch. Although, of course, they’ve only won the
            Champions’ League twice in that time, so, maybe, like the Yankees;
            they are just a perineal play-off qualifier.______________________
            We will see what happens as Ferguson ages and the Glazers spend
            less on the team.

          • Alan says:

            @Tijuana Robert First off, I don’t watch American sports, so nice
            try in fitting me into your cliche. I watch golf, tennis, soccer,
            and rugby (and please don’t try to compare individual sports to
            team sports – I know its coming). I love watching Italian Serie A.
            I love watching southern hemisphere Rugby. Most of my favorite
            tennis players are foreigners. Second, I don’t think that everyone
            should win, but have a fair and equal chance at winning. The team
            that wins should be based on talent, hard work, and desire, not by
            how much is spent on players. If Man U spent about the same as
            Fulham or Sunderland but won 2 out of every 3 championships, then I
            would be truly impressed and actually be for that. Realistically
            though, if money is not what wins the game, then you won’t see the
            same team win that much year after year. Finally, soccer is a game
            and a sport and not life. Plain and simple. I love watching it, and
            it is great, but life? I don’t think so.

          • Alan says:

            @The Original Tom Oh, I know that Man U are good. If you outspend
            most of the teams year after year, you will likely win most of the
            time because you have accumulated the most talent. Of course, a
            good coach and other factors play a big role too, but with a fairer
            budget, he would not have the same level of success. I bet even he
            will tell you that. The fact that they have only won the CL that
            often proves my point. On a more level playing field, they would
            not be successful. Even is somehow CL was a traditional European
            season (one home and one away) you would see more parity because
            the spending gap between most teams involved that would be
            considered in the top 20 would be much less. That is part of what
            makes CL so exciting.

          • The original Tom says:

            Alan, I agree with your point regarding the champions league. The
            domestic leagues are like college football conferences, they are
            lopsided, but I still find it really exciting. The fight for
            Champions League births and relegation are key, of course.

  6. Charles says:

    Trollers: FIFA wants two things: Money and
    Power………….Sounders outside MLS 5k <<<<<

  7. Zig says:

    NASL commissioner has said in past interviews that D2 is a natural
    stepping stone to D1 for a lot of teams and that the NASL doesn’t
    mind that. But this move WILL increase Cosmos negotiating power
    with MLS. If they already have a D2 team out there getting the fans
    excited, it will be harder for MLS to keep talking about “other
    potential NY ownership groups”.

    • Charles says:

      Trollers…FIFA wants two things Money and Power. The Sounders with
      5k outside of MLS is less than 42k per game in MLS. If MLS makes
      more money with 30-40 teams in the league, and they do, they will
      throw out or ignore the 20 team rule faster than you can say FIFA
      is currupt. They don’t care about all your dumb causes…only you
      and a handful of others care. Once again FIFA cares about two
      things Money and Power.

    • andy says:

      NASL commish has also said that he envisions NASL being a tier 2
      league in a pro/rel system

  8. Nickp says:

    Bad day for cosmos fans

  9. CTBlues says:

    Well this means they will be able to continue to use Umbro as their
    kit maker instead of Adidas.

  10. CTBlues says:

    According to Wikipedia the Cosmos are going to be playing their
    games at Hofstra.

  11. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    just a thought…………if you had arab oil kind of money, and
    want to invest, betting on re-birth of the Cosmos and it great
    history. What makes more sense, to pay 40 to 70 mil to the cartel,
    had your club become a franchise and you an “owner operator”, and
    be limited to a salary cap, or , save those millions and invest
    most of if building your team, while retaining 100% control over
    it, and not be limited to a salary cap?

    • Gazza says:

      Try $100m for the NY Cosmos with a ready made Queens site. And yes
      I would pay that over average 1600 fans at Hofstra in a league I
      can never make real money in.

      • Tijuana Robert says:

        $100M sunk cost to join a league that tarps seats off and owns all
        player contracts. What the hell do you get in return?

        • Gazza says:

          A proper football league that’s not drowning in debt where teams
          don’t spend money they haven’t earned to win titles. Participation
          in a league where you can’t pick the top 2 teams 3 months before
          the season starts. A chance to win the title every year. An
          increase in the value of my club 5 or 10 fold. That’s what I get in
          return.

  12. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    it will be interesting to consider what would happen if a few of
    these investors willing to “get rid of” 50/70 mil
    think:……..what if we joint forces, save a few millions each and
    invest it in building our teams and a very competive league.(
    wheather a new league or via NASL ) ……MLS salary cap is 3.5 mil
    ( some like that ), lets say they each invest 20 mil on players,
    out of the 50/70 mil they just saved by not going to
    MLS……………….jaja……good luck wining the USOC again
    MLS!……………..it would expose the fraud this USSF is, if
    they keep sanctioning MLS div 1 after that.

    • CTBlues says:

      That would be interesting but the only reason millionaires invest
      stupid amounts of money is leagues like the EPL is that it is the
      most popular league in the world. It has butts in the seats, eyes
      on TV, and tons of high spending sponsors. The US sports media
      could give two shits about soccer unless the US men’s or women’s
      national teams are involved.

      • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

        @CTBlues…….dont you think that the system in place in the EPL
        probably have something to do with it being the most popular leagie
        in the world?……………..what are the other most popular
        leagies in the world?………are they open or
        closed?………………..ultimately, dont you think that the
        openness of international football may have something to do with
        our game being the most popular on the planet?

        • Charles says:

          Closed. Almost all the most successful leagues in the world are in
          the US and they are closed as you call it…………..I love the
          arguement that the most successful soccer laegues have it one way,
          so it must be right, it is a laughable arguement. They never tried
          two different systems like the US did. The US failed in one method
          and I would still say that shows nothing……different
          times……………then guys like ‘theakinet’ take the stupid
          arguement to another level saying that the EPL is successful with
          one team winning, not even considering how much that might be
          holding the league back. You can’t be that dumb, so are you just
          hoping we don’t think about it too much ?…………The Cosmos
          winning all the time already killed one US league, if you don’t
          admit that, not much point in going any further, because you don’t
          know what you are talking about.

          • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

            the FACT that 98.55 % (205 out of 208 ) countries in the world
            adheres to the principles of pro/rel doesn’t tell you
            anything?…………..doesn’t it makes you think there may be a
            solid reason why this practice is so widly
            spread?……………the indication that there should be something
            good about it is a laughable arguement for you?…….”They never
            tried two different systems like the US did”……..did the US ever
            tried pro/rel?………………..there is only one thing that I
            agree with you Charles, MLS should follow the NFL model. I think
            they should do it openly and radically and brake away from Fifa and
            do their “own thing”…..just like griridon unafiliated from rugby.

        • CTBlues says:

          No, I think it is the most popular because it is marketed itself
          correctly as soon as it was formed in the early 90′s. I would love
          for pro/reg to happen in the country because I live in a small
          state that happens to be smack dab in the middle of two of biggest
          sports towns in the country New York and Boston and we lost our
          only pro team when the Whalers moved to North Carolina, but the
          problem is soccer isn’t king in this country football is followed
          by baseball. I think you will have an easier time preaching to the
          people about pro/rel after the baby boomer generation is gone.

    • Footy76 says:

      Your head is in the clouds.

  13. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    @CTBlues…….so the popularity of EPL have to do with marketing,
    and not at all with the fact that it is the top of the summit of a
    6500 clubs pyramid (not a typo sixty five thousand clubs
    )………….oooohhhh MLS is going to be one of the top world
    leagues in no time, after all we have a “marketing guru” in
    charge…………….marketing babe, mucho mucho marketing!

    • Alan says:

      Other leagues have that same pyramid. Only like 40 of those 6500
      have spent enough to make EPL. I bet if you asked the average fan,
      they don’t know anything about the other 6500 teams and don’t care,
      because they are not spending like Man U and Man City. Even
      supporters of Sunderland in the US won’t care if they get relegated
      because they will just go to another team that they can actually
      watch on TV. Being the most popular league makes you the best like
      being the most popular singer makes you the best, like Britney
      Spears.

  14. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    sorry it is sixty five hundred ( not thousand ) clubs. 6,500 still
    a lot of clubs. I know you guys get the idea.

  15. andy says:

    this is the best thing to happen to US domestic soccer in awhile.
    We need to build up D2. Having the Cosmos in NASL will help NASL
    grow. Now we need NASL to go into more cities where there is no
    MLS. NASL clubs have an opportunity to get involved in our youth
    development. NASL clubs should look into a business model where
    they develop young players and then sell them to MLS or to other
    leagues.Over time this will build up NASL. And once NASL is stable
    we can talk pro/rel.

    • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

      @andy…..you said:”And once NASL is stable we can talk
      pro/rel”…….I totally disagree with that point, it is what I
      call reversed logic. Let me explain why I call it that way…….a
      good example is the LA Blues on USL Pro and the San Antonio
      Scorpions on NASL, they are the only clubs on their leagues on the
      west. They don’t play each other because the are on differnet
      leagues. However, they have to travel 2 or 3 time zones to EVERY
      away game. Including places like Puerto Rico and Antigua………..
      A similar situation is Tampa and Miami not playing Orlando but
      traveling to Edmonton instead……….an absurd waste of resources
      that could be invested on the game. A huge economical pressure on
      clubs that are 1 and 2 years old and play on irrelevant leagues
      that are totally unlink to international soccer
      structure………..without the incentive of promotion, what are
      they playing for?…………how are they going to “get stable” and
      build SSSs, if those conditions are not changed?……….I will be
      amazed if they don’t fold on a couple of years!……….the
      argument “once thay get stable we can talk pro/rel”…is the
      equivalent of…..”once the deadly bleeding patient gets stable we
      can talk about a Blood Transfusion”…….i hope you guys
      understand why I call it the “reversed logic” argument

  16. andy says:

    lets put pro/rel on the back burner. What we really need in MLS is
    to get rid of this single entity garbage and get some free agency.

  17. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    @Andy….I agree with most of your points but, think about it. In
    order to get rid of single entity, we need to get rid of the people
    that imposed it on us. Single entity is the reflection of their
    American sports model heavily influenced mentality. ……..single
    entity and the people that imposed it on us, is the only real
    hurdle for pro/real to be implemented. Everything else is just
    smoke thrown in our faces

    • Charles says:

      How can it be imposed when I am for it ? Parity
      rules……………….You know what didn’t rule ? Watching the
      Cosmos win every year. You guys are just to young and ignorant to
      remember.

      • Tijuana Robert says:

        Charles, then what is the point of MLS playing in Champions League?
        Parity if fine if you are the only game in town but once you
        compete internationally you get bounced. +50% of MLS got bounced
        from our domestic cup why the hell waste time in CCL then if you
        want parity.

  18. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    @andy……just to clarify a point, when I ( and i think other
    people in my camp will agree ) advocate for pro/rel, I am
    advocating for the principles of inclusion and meritocracy that
    pro/rel is a tool for……..it does not mean that once we decided
    to go that way, we automatically start promoting and relegating
    teams on a way that could be harmfull for owners, cities or our
    club soccer structure in general……..there will have to be a
    series of logical steps in order to do it right……..1st)get rid
    of single entity……..2) negotiate with MLS owners in order to
    work on a logical compensation for their entry fees……..3)
    implementation which should take in consideration many factor
    like:……..clarity ( Japan is an exelent example on how
    transparent their incremental plan was presented )……..the
    geographical size of the nation……..the quality and structural
    gap among the leagues ( it would be stupid to start relegating MLS
    teams right away), it should be a gradual transition……..build
    up of ideal number of clubs on each division ( if you merge NASL
    and USL Pro, you still only have 2 teams on the west coast;. there
    is a clear inbalance)……….set logical stadia and financial
    criteria in order for clubs to be elegible for
    promotion………..all of this will take work, but I am sure is
    not an utopia……… Step # cero is to get soccer people to be on
    charge of american soccer, as long as we have leaders that are
    closer to the american sports stablishment than to our game on
    charge, all of this will be imposible.

    • Alan says:

      Inclusion and meritocracy? Lol, what a joke.

    • andy says:

      yes i agree but first single entity must go and free agency must be
      allowed. Every player should have the right to negotiate a
      contract. So the focus should be on free agency. Once you have free
      agency and are rid of single entity you will have MLS teams that
      start acting like clubs. You wouldn’t have a league where teams
      aren’t allowed to compete for players. This should come before
      pro/rel.

  19. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    “Inclusion and meritocracy? Lol, what a joke.”………..I don’t
    know if you are aware that those are the principles in practice in
    the World Cup qualifiers, and every confederation’s club
    championship, and the Fifa Clubs World Cup, and that pro/rel is
    just the extention of those principles at the national club
    level…………..Now, if you think they are a joke, then you
    agree with me that we should stop sending our USMNT to the WC
    qualifiers?….and you agree with me that we should stop sending
    our franchises to the CCL right?………..why are we playing those
    tournaments if we do not believe, and do not like the principles
    they are base upon?

    • Alan says:

      You are an idiot. My comment was saying that your system does not
      use inclusion and meritocracy, not that they are a bad thing. Get
      off you stupid pro/rel soapbox. I am not against pro/rel. I am
      against single-minded idiots that like to twist everything into
      some black and white issue. If you can’t think for yourself, then
      don’t think. Thanks.

      • Roger(Pro?Rel) says:

        @Alan…..when ideas are debated, you should come up with arguments
        that clarify your position and fight ideas agains ideas, better yet
        if they are backed up with logical arguments…..to “shoot the
        messenger” is low, and does not bring anything to the
        debate…….you textually said:…..” Inclusion and meritocracy?
        Lol, what a joke. “…..that is the ONLY thing that your comment
        said……..if you “think for yourself” like you claim, then you
        shoud articulate your arguments instead of making one line
        comments, and then feel ofended by the reply, only to insult using
        an adjetive that fits your behavior more than anybody else’s.
        …………the first time you address me here started
        with:…”seriously dude”…respectfull way to introduce yourself
        into a debate hah?…..if you have any arguments you will like to
        debate, here I am….anybody have a “bad moment”…..any other
        insult, you will be ignored……it’s your call………seriously
        dude

        • Alan says:

          What am I arguing again? You make assumptions and put words in
          people’s mouth. Doing stuff like that tends to piss people off, and
          you do it all the time. Debate? I would love to, but I am not sure
          what I would be debating really, because you obviously don’t
          understand my position or anyone else’s. You just want it to fit
          into some stereotypical pro/rel debate, and will twist anyone’s
          words to allow you to use phrases like “inclusion and meritocracy”.
          So yeah, that is what pissed me off. You do it all the time, and it
          warrants no respectable debate on anything. So, as far as insults
          go, your attitude towards debate and discussion is insulting, and
          definitely warrants a lot of “seriously dude” comments. As far as
          coming up with ideas to debate, that is pointless to you. You will
          just make everyone into what you want them to be. That is not a
          debate. That is a way to piss people off. If you can’t see that,
          then you have a problem that I can’t help you with.

          • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

            Alan, if you give me an example of when I have put words on
            people’s mouth and you are right I will apologyse…….but, you
            could go back to your own post and see that it textually said:
            “Inclusion and meritocracy? Lol, what a joke.” (I copy and pasted
            this)…….what interpretation do you get from it?…….you only
            explained yourself after on your insulting answer…….If it is ok
            with you we could try to restablish the debate……..you are right
            when you say that I over do the pro/rel thing, I do it
            intentionally because I thing it is the pink elefant on the room of
            american soccer. Thats why I use (Pro/Rel) on my name……….I
            think you are wrong you say:”…..to allow you to use phrases like
            “inclusion and meritocracy”…….it sounds like I use empy
            phrases, but I have explained a few times on this blog what I mean
            by “inclusion and meritocracy”. They are not empy words for me at
            all…………inclusion and meritocracy are principles the make
            clear what are the philosophical diferences between our game and
            american sports. I usually use the World Cup as an example of that.
            More nations play the Fifa World Cup (208 on the last), than the
            United Nations have members (192 last time I checked
            )……..inclusion and meritocracy are the spirit of our game and
            single entity is in total contradiction with that spirit, that is
            one of my basic, recurrent arguments………..Alan, I would like
            to know:….do you disagree with my position about inclusion and
            meritocracy being in contradiction with single entity?…..If you
            do, why?

          • Alan says:

            Are you assuming that I am for single entity? Are you assuming that
            I am against “inclusion and meritocracy” just because I don’t
            believe that your ideas have any thing to do with that? If you are,
            why?

          • Alan says:

            Looking back at it, I can see your point that the way I made my
            statement about “inclusion and meritocracy” could be taken the
            wrong way. For that, I apologize.

      • andy says:

        Alan, what’s your opinion concerning free agency in MLS?

        • Alan says:

          I have no problem with it, and never have.

          • andy says:

            oh. So you want free agency or you don’t?

          • Alan says:

            I could care less either way really, but I can see it being a good
            thing if implemented right. As long as we don’t end up with teams
            buying championships or playing soccer in the snow, then I am fine
            with it.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            Alan, take a fricking side. Stop playing the middle of the road bs,
            “well, I i like it but i wouldn’t care either way.” At least us
            Pro/Rel advocates take a stand.

          • Charles says:

            Tijuana Robert: “Alan, you need to be more ‘troll-ish’, even if it
            dumb to do so, just keep on doing it”

          • Alan says:

            I’m not being boxed into a corner by a troll. Its not a big issue
            for me, and I will support MLS regardless of whether we have free
            agency. I am all for it as long as there is financial fair play
            involved. Teams buying championships and playing a summer sport in
            winter weather are the issues that I care about. Sorry if that is
            not good enough for you.

          • @Alan…..tijuana Robert anticipated me. I was going to say the
            same thing……on your first post your point was EPL=joke. clubs
            buy titles ( I partially agree but it is a strech ), I am against
            financial disparity…………then on another post you said that
            you don’t follow american sports……….that totally confused me
            because those are arguments usually used against pro/rel and pro
            single entity, by people that VERY frequently end up telling us how
            much they love the NFL, and the american sports model in
            general………..then, after we manage to restablish comunication
            ( which I am glad for ), then you asked me if I asume you are pro
            single entity and/or against inclusion and meritocracy just because
            you think that my ideas have nothing to do with inclusion and
            meritocracy !?..Without clarifying your position, you throw
            questions back at me!?…….shouldn’t you clarify first why you
            think that pro/rel (which is what I advocate) is not about
            inclusion and meritocracy?……….you are pasionate about
            financial fairness, but will support MLS regardless and couldn’t
            care less if it does free agency or not !!??………my point: in
            order for this debate to be healthy ( even though we may still
            disagree after all ), I think you should argument your positions
            better

          • Alan says:

            Roger, you are really grasping for straws. I will start at the top.
            Yes, EPL is a joke league because teams buy titles. Is there good,
            quality football played? Without a doubt, but a league should be
            competitive. If not, then people just care about matches of the top
            teams like I do. I care because the quality is high. It better be
            for as much as they pay. As a league, its pretty dumb. As far as me
            following American sports, no I don’t. You are AGAIN trying to lump
            people into a category. You CAN think that there are good things to
            see in multiple systems. I just don’t buy the premise of your
            question. It is meant to box me into a black and white corner.
            Sorry, not falling for it. Also, I have NEVER said that I am pro
            single-entity. Not once. I have never said that I am against
            pro/rel. I see positives in both pro/rel and in a bigger league. My
            comment about inclusion and meritocracy was not in relation to
            pro/rel in general, but to the way that you view pro/rel (poor
            teams that have no chance in winning fighting just to be included,
            automatic up and down, 40 out of 6500 teams ever making it to the
            top flight, basically the EPL model). Pro/rel COULD work if done
            right, but so can a bigger first division, but if you want to box
            me into a corner then ok. For me to support pro/rel, it wouldn’t be
            about money, teams that come up would have to beat the teams that
            go down to do it, and every team would have an equal chance of
            going up and of going down. Honestly, I just don’t lose sleep over
            pro/rel. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into your cliche, but I will
            support MLS either way. It doesn’t mean that I support everything
            that they do. It means that I support the players, the fans, the
            teams, the play on the field, and the growth of the sport in
            America. To give a crap about the growth of soccer in America, you
            have to support it and be critical of it when necessary. You can be
            an MLS fan and desperately want to see pro/rel. Do I support free
            agency? I don’t see why not. Do I support a rich owner buying up
            all the talent. Hell no. As for the NFL, I HATE NFL. It is the most
            boring thing on the planet to me. I do think that their system
            works good though and that there are things that can be learned
            from them just like there are things that can be learned from EPL.
            I hate NFL because American football the game itself is stupid,
            whatever system they have. And yes, you assume a lot of things. You
            ask questions like you assume you already know the answer. So, I
            tried to hit up every point that you asked about. If you need
            clarification let me know. Not everything is black and white to me.
            Here is my vision of an ideal MLS the best that I can describe it.
            A reasonable amount of financial fair play. A higher salary cap,
            and one that goes up much faster than it is now, but not too fast
            just yet. I would say at least a million or 2 a year, if not more
            as long as it isn’t hurting the league. Clubs/franchises/whatever
            get to act more independently within appropriate financial rules.
            Right now, more cooperation with the NASL and USL allow the
            reserves to play in those leagues. Better academies and incentives
            for them, but also incentives to support college soccer. I honestly
            don’t know if we really need a draft. As long as there is financial
            fair play, I don’t see the need for it really. The calendar should
            remain spring-fall for obvious reasons, although adjustments should
            be made to accomodate international play a little bit better.
            Designated player rule is fine as is. Play-offs should stay.
            Conferences should stay, although there was an intriguing article
            written months ago about how having a conference phase and a cup
            phase. The schedule should be unbalanced due to travel. The US Open
            Cup should be patterned after the Coppa Italia and FA Cup. The
            Supporters Shield should stay, but the MLS Cup should be the
            champion. It should be home and away including the final. Did I
            forget anything? Let me know. There are things that can definitely
            change, but there are good things that are done right. Games are
            exciting to go to, but could be even better. I think that fan
            support is more essential than pro/rel, and no, I don’t tie the two
            together. There are fans that aren’t too snobbish not to support
            the league but also protest for pro/rel at the same time. Those are
            the people that get listened to. I think that everyone knows that
            those that criticize all of the time and never praise will never
            become fans under any circumstances. If pro/rel came to MLS
            tomorrow, then MLS will need to switch their calendar to match EPL
            too, and lift salary caps like EPL too, and end the play-offs, etc.
            Those fans will NEVER be happy, and it will be beneath them to
            support our “Mickey Mouse” league until it is a carbon copy of EPL,
            and even then I doubt that they will support it. That’s just my
            opinion, but at least I have my own.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            Alan, you’re a tennis fan. How should tennis limit Roger Federer’s
            level of play since he has been #1 for +280 consecutive weeks? Or
            should other tennis players work harder and train harder to beat
            this guy? Don’t you get tired of him winning so many titles? Don’t
            other players deserve a shot to win titles because…it’s not fair
            that he gets to win so much?

          • Charles says:

            Federer has been number one for 280 weeks in a row ? Even after
            Nadal won The French Open ? Stick to not knowing anything about
            soccer Robert……………………RF didn’t buy a championship,
            it is not an unlevel playing field, I am fine with it being decided
            by playing in a fair competition………MLS style baby !

          • Alan says:

            Yeah, seriously Robert, you’re an idiot for that comment. He does
            as well as he does based on his athletic ability. Please reread my
            post where I said that I have no problem with one team dominating
            as long as its not at an unfair advantage due to money. National
            teams aren’t purchased, but developed. Tennis players aren’t
            purchased, but developed. Federer is probably the greatest tennis
            player of all time and has earned his number 1 streak. Now if
            tennis was a team sport and Fed, Nadal, and Djokovic were on a team
            because some rich owner purchased that team, then that would be
            stupid.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            Alan, all soccer players do well because of their athletic ability
            and compensated for that ability, just like Federer. I can toss
            huge amounts of money at you but it wouldn’t change that you’re an
            idiot. So you’re in favor of individual sports being uncapped while
            punishing team sports. Ok, that it explains everything

          • Alan says:

            This is WAY over your pea-sized brain. WAYYYYYYY over. Federer
            doesn’t win because he has more money. Man U wins because they have
            more money. Nobody is limiting a team’s athletic ability. Nobody is
            capping an individual player’s salary. I am not for that. Pretty
            simple stuff for a fifth grader to understand.

          • The original Tom says:

            Alan, I agree the tennis analogy is flawed; but with ManU, the
            success is due much more than money, the success breeds itself.
            ManU has developed a number of good players from its academy, and
            also buys young (like C. Ronaldo, for example). I think college
            football is a better comparison. And again, I think it will be
            really interesting to see what happens post Ferguson.

          • Alan says:

            Would Man U do the same with half the spending? Would anybody that
            doesn’t spend as much as them be able to compete for the EPL title?
            That’s all I am asking. Their winning is totally based on money.
            It’s great that they have developed players, but it still goes back
            to the money. My guess is without Ferguson they will have similar
            success if they spend the same amount. They will buy a great
            manager and the best players. They will have the players that teams
            like Stoke and West Brom can’t compete for. They might even buy
            their best players as well. They will eventually do good again like
            every other team that spends as much as they do. I do respect where
            you are coming from though. I’m no Man U fan, but it would be
            ridiculous of me to say that their isn’t positives there too. Its
            the stupidity in the league more than anything that I don’t like. I
            also give Ferguson credit for realizing that FIFA should switch to
            a spring/fall calendar. He’s a good guy, really smart, and a good
            manager. Credit where credit is due.

  20. Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

    USSF should brake away from Fifa. Our leaders mentality is so alien
    to our game culture that I believe the differences are
    irreconciliable……….think about it, we wouldn’t have to do
    much to be like the NFL…….we practice single entity (just like
    them), franchises instead of clubs, salary cap, draft, unbalanced
    schedule, All Stars game, ( i don’t even want to get started on our
    play-offs)………… they wouldn’t even need to change
    commisioner, it comes from the NFL!…(very convenient
    ah?!)……….if our “leaders” stop sending the National Team to
    qualify for the World Cup, stop sending MLS franchises to the CCL
    and declare MLS Cup the mayor and only trophy there is, no
    international competition at all ( end of the road) ……..then
    MLS will be very very similar to the NFL , don’t you agree?

    • andy says:

      could even call the MLS cup winner the world champs.

    • Charles says:

      No need to break away. FIFA will bow down to what MLS wants to do.
      Anyone disagree with that ?

      • Roger(Pro/Rel) says:

        Charles….I don’t know if Fifa will bow down to MLS, but just this
        time I agree with you on something ( I know its very weird), Fifa
        has been very very soft with the USSF

        • CTBlues says:

          That is probably because most of the FIFA’s sponsors are American
          companies and because the amount of money they can get out of fans
          from our country.

          • Tijuana Robert says:

            That’s true but there are a lot of American fans who are not MLS
            fans but USNT fans.

          • Charles says:

            That the the 1994 WCup was the most attended ever and MLS has to be
            the fastest growing league in the world…….FIFA soft, no that is
            not the right word, Power and Money…..Bingo……..to think that
            FIFA cares about Pro-Rel over non Pro-Rel, Academy over College
            development, Two team leagues over a parity one, etc is the most
            moronic thing anyone could think. I am one of the few over the last
            40 years that care at all about US Soccer without a financial
            reason to do to. FIFA ?………give me a break.

          • CTBlues says:

            The problem with the college game is that it is strapped down by
            NCAA rules. All the college soccer teams need to break away from
            the NCAA and join one of the amateur leagues like BYU’s soccer team
            did.

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